Rob Watson

So the last Conservative government had introduced what many thought was pretty draconian measures in 2023, which they thought might violate UN conventions on refugees, essentially saying if you came to the UK in a small boat, no matter how good your claim was, no matter how deserving you were for refugee asylum status, you would not be considered because you're

So the last Conservative government had introduced what many thought was pretty draconian measures in 2023, which they thought might violate UN conventions on refugees, essentially saying if you came to the UK in a small boat, no matter how good your claim was, no matter how deserving you were for refugee asylum status, you would not be considered because you're

you had arrived here, as the government thought, illegally. The new Labour government has repealed that, but it's toughening things by saying, look, even if you've got asylum status, even if you've been considered, yes, you're a legitimate refugee, in most cases, you will normally refuse the next step of being considered for citizenship if you came here illegally.

you had arrived here, as the government thought, illegally. The new Labour government has repealed that, but it's toughening things by saying, look, even if you've got asylum status, even if you've been considered, yes, you're a legitimate refugee, in most cases, you will normally refuse the next step of being considered for citizenship if you came here illegally.

Well, I guess you could divide it into two, Jack. There's those more to the left or on the sort of human rights, civil rights side who would say this was terrible. So, for example, you've got several Labour MPs saying this is crazy because it would turn refugees into second class citizens. You've got the Refugee Council saying that's a group that, if you like, promotes the rights of refugees.

Well, I guess you could divide it into two, Jack. There's those more to the left or on the sort of human rights, civil rights side who would say this was terrible. So, for example, you've got several Labour MPs saying this is crazy because it would turn refugees into second class citizens. You've got the Refugee Council saying that's a group that, if you like, promotes the rights of refugees.

So it just doesn't make any sense at all. I mean, if people have come here, surely you'd want them to be full participants in society and give them citizenship if they've earned it.

So it just doesn't make any sense at all. I mean, if people have come here, surely you'd want them to be full participants in society and give them citizenship if they've earned it.

On the other side, on the right, if you like, you've got the Conservative Party, the former governing party, and Reform, the sort of populist party of the right, saying the Labour government should not have softened the rules in the first place about considering people arriving in small boats. So, if you like, the new Labour government finds itself caught from both sides.

On the other side, on the right, if you like, you've got the Conservative Party, the former governing party, and Reform, the sort of populist party of the right, saying the Labour government should not have softened the rules in the first place about considering people arriving in small boats. So, if you like, the new Labour government finds itself caught from both sides.

Quite an abrupt change, isn't it, that you heard from his previous position. So who is he? As you were saying, he's a I guess you describe him as an elder statesman within the governing Labour Party. I suppose some would say he was a bit of a Svengali figure, someone who just seems to be incredibly good at the dark arts of politics, someone who's very clever, very charming.

Quite an abrupt change, isn't it, that you heard from his previous position. So who is he? As you were saying, he's a I guess you describe him as an elder statesman within the governing Labour Party. I suppose some would say he was a bit of a Svengali figure, someone who just seems to be incredibly good at the dark arts of politics, someone who's very clever, very charming.

And as you said, has worked for both Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and now, of course, Sakhir Starmer.

And as you said, has worked for both Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and now, of course, Sakhir Starmer.

Yes, I mean, not only describing him as a danger to the world, reckless, a bully, but also the fact that Peter Mandelson had previously been a member of the European Union Commission, the EU Commission, and we all know how Donald Trump dislikes the EU. So why chosen? I think just because he is regarded by Sir Keir Starmer as an incredibly skillful operator.

Yes, I mean, not only describing him as a danger to the world, reckless, a bully, but also the fact that Peter Mandelson had previously been a member of the European Union Commission, the EU Commission, and we all know how Donald Trump dislikes the EU. So why chosen? I think just because he is regarded by Sir Keir Starmer as an incredibly skillful operator.

And if anybody can talk themselves out of the hole he was, he dug himself six years ago by describing the president in that way, then Peter Mandelson is the man. And I guess part of his selling point as well is that unlike a regular diplomat in that role, he'd be able to say, look, I really do have the ear of the British prime minister.

And if anybody can talk themselves out of the hole he was, he dug himself six years ago by describing the president in that way, then Peter Mandelson is the man. And I guess part of his selling point as well is that unlike a regular diplomat in that role, he'd be able to say, look, I really do have the ear of the British prime minister.

Yes, absolutely. And he seems pretty confident.

Yes, absolutely. And he seems pretty confident.