Robert Evans

I mean that.

Yeah.

So it's in part just kind of his revenge based on his his shitty mom.

He's just taking it out on other people.

Well, also just he grew up learning that, like, that's what you do to people like you can either be controlled or controlling.

Yes.

I'll pick controlling.

Yeah, sure.

So, yeah, so being cutthroat, like we said, being cutthroat isn't weird in the music industry.

Like, you know, there's a lot of people that are famous for their, like, ruthless activities inside the music industry, especially in the old days or whatever.

But...

To be in a cutthroat environment and be the cuttiest, throatiest person of that environment is like, okay.

Like, everybody is like, no, Phil is the worst of all of them.

Like, you know, everybody in the building hates him.

Nobody trusts him.

He gets a reputation for just being, like, the dude that would show up all the time and just, like, jump in on things and take control and all that stuff.

People don't like him.

So one of the most important relationships Spectre formed during this New York period was with legendary songwriting production doer Jerry Lieber and Mike Stoller.

Lieber and Stoller were already giants of the early rock and rhythm and blues era and were responsible for shaping hits for artists like Elvis Presley, The Coasters, like numerous other artists.

They were architects of the modern producer model, combining songwriting and arrangement and studio direction into a single creative authority.