Robin Carhart-Harris

And we had to be very, very careful and professional not to either endorse or deny, but rather just listen compassionately.

And so if it's there as something imagined, that's something to work with therapeutically.

If it really happened, that's something to work with therapeutically.

But let's not make a call on its radicality.

I will add, though, that there was another case where the abuse was known ahead of time.

There'd actually been a case against this, again, a parental figure, a father, and it was sexual abuse, and he was convicted.

And so this was the trauma that this patient brought in to the session, treatment-resistant depression again.

So we certainly didn't guide him there at all.

As I said, the therapy and the sessions is very hands-off.

It's not directive in terms of talking at all.

But he went there and he expressed to his therapist that I can see my father abusing me.

And so there, the approach, the response from the therapist, and one in particular, was to gently suggest the going towards, okay, let's stay with that a while if you can.

Is this on psilocybin or MDMA?

This is psilocybin, high-dose psilocybin.

Very, very painful for him, for the patient, but he did.

And the abuser was manifest as a monster with a gun, you know, that might be seen as symbolic, and incredibly menacing, terrifying.

And then staying with this vision, with the support, it morphed.

And it morphed into something pathetic, almost pitiful.

And there was almost some forgiveness.

And I'm sort of echoing the patient's words here.