Robin Schiller

So whether he knows it or not, he has inadvertently helped the state's case against Daniel Kinnan.

It stems from a few different things, like in relation to specifically Daniel Kinn and Sean McGovern, you rarely see, or in the past have seen, maybe more than 10 years ago, in relation to a serious organized crime offense, including murder, you may have the hitman convicted, you may have a getaway driver convicted, but the actual people who are pulling the strings behind the scenes, the convictions were never there because they weren't using these encrypted messages.

It takes time for that investigation, for a good investigation to be progressed, and for an investigation...

That will result in a prosecution that is solid, that can stand up in court.

That takes time.

It would be great to see somebody arrested, charged within 24 hours of something happening.

That's just not realistic.

If you want solid, safe prosecutions, it takes time for those investigations.

You have the other aspect of the fact that Sean McGovern was at large for eight, nine years.

Daniel Kinnan last set foot in Ireland in April 2016, I think it is.

He has to be back here in 10 years, so it's hard to advance the case directly against him.

In relation to guarded tools, they needed assistance from international law enforcement, colleagues in North America, Dutch police as well, had to be used to encrypt or decrypt those messages.

It would be great if they had those tools, but it's not something that's available to every law enforcement.

It's a very specific police force who have that, so...

it would be great if he had them, but guard, you don't.

But, you know, I think the guards do have to be commended for, you know, sticking with this case, the amount of evidence that's been built up about against Sean McGovern.

It was clear in the sentencing hearing that you can see why he pleaded guilty.

He was absolutely nailed on the circumstantial case, albeit a very strong case against him.

And same with Daniel Kinney.

Now, the guards will say, and the state will say, when he comes back and he is put on trial, that they have an immensely strong case against him to prove the offence of direct organized crime.