Rory Stewart

And there's some really interesting questions about whether you can set up legal structures, subsidiaries to actually give Europe sovereignty on this, and how you balance that against the other brutal point, which is

Google would never make openly, but that France is spending 20 billion on tech, and that sounds like a lot, but...

Google and the other tech companies will be spending over 300 billion next year alone on the next stage of their tech investment in AI.

So the Munich Security Conference is chiefly known, I think, for many listeners, because this is where JD Vance, very radically in February last year, a year ago, made a speech to Munich to a horrified European crowd, which you watched, I think, live.

Tell us a little bit about it.

The other thing that was happening a year ago is that this was the moment when Germany was about to go into an election, when the AFD, the alternative for Deutschland, the far right, was on the rise.

And, of course, Elon Musk was still very much part of the Trump administration.

Musk was openly campaigning for the AFD.

Vance, the vice president, took time out of his schedule to meet us, the leader of the AFD.

And it was the first time that we began to see something that's in the national security strategy, which is about the US using its influence in order to support Russia.

what they seem to see as the kind of patriotic real parties against the sort of liberals who are wiping out European civilization.

In other words, a moment where it felt as though the US was, and the administration, particularly people like Marx, putting their emphasis on trying to almost campaign for the FD and hoping they were going to win the election.

I picked up a few sentences from it that I thought were quite striking.

We've increasingly outsourced our sovereignty to international institutions.

So that's one big important American claim, which is an idea in the MAGA movement of the Republicans that the things that America created since 1945, the UN, NATO,

are actually impacts on US sovereignty.

They don't give it its full freedom.

What is he saying the world should have done at that point?

Well, so this is exactly the fight, right?

The agreement after the Second World War was that peace...