Rory Stewart

I'm still skeptical.

And you're still skeptical.

Let me start you, though, with Brexit.

So 10 years on, a bit of post-traumatic stress.

I was a member then of David Cameron's government, an environment minister campaigning for Remain.

Not hard enough.

Not hard enough.

And I was at the great royal show in Edinburgh, the agricultural show.

Royal Highland show, up all night in my hotel room, watching the results, David Dimbleby coming on.

And then of course, as somebody who then went to Theresa May's government, I was right in the heart of this fight where you and your friend Tony Blair were very much saying, this is ridiculous, we need a second referendum.

And I was trying to say, let's make the best of it and try to get a customs union or a single market compromise out of this.

Let me though, just take us back to

where I think the fundamental arguments were and how weird that moment was.

Fundamentally, you had the Brexiteers saying two things.

One of them was Singapore on Thames, which is, if we leave the European Union, we can deregulate, cut taxes, become more pro-business, more pro-innovation, and

Britain will boom like Singapore or Dubai.

And the second argument was the global Britain argument.

Europe's slow and sclerotic.

All the growth in the world is US, China, India, and we need to lean into those places with new trade deals, new relationships, and throw off the shackles of this

old place.