Rory Stewart

I think the future war, I'd add to that, is sovereignty.

It's all about sovereignty.

And our real problem is we're having to build all this stuff without being able to rely on US defense equipment anymore.

Yeah.

Well, so answer to Andrew, there has been a lot of research on this and what academics have been trying to look at is pound for pound, what kind of return do you get investing in a nuclear submarine and barrow for your economy compared to investing in education, infrastructure skills?

Generally, the conclusion is if what you're trying to do is generate economic growth, pound for pound, you'd be better going for education, infrastructure, skills.

Defense is not a very productive investment.

We don't really do that either.

No.

I think the reason to go to defense is not that it's the cheapest way of getting economic growth.

The reason to go for defense is there's a threat from Russia.

We can no longer rely on the US, and we will have no sovereignty or independence unless we build up the capacity.

Yeah.

I mean, if anyone wants to get into any of this more, I've done a mini series on AI with Matt Clifford that we're quite proud of.

And we get deep into all these debates.

How much does technology matter?

And what should the UK do about it?

And what should Europe do about it in particular?

So just go to the wrestlerspolitics.com.

Well, how are they doing that?