Rose Shocker

He had so many hot takes. And I feel like this episode is going to be so great for the boots on the ground marketers. I feel like they're going to be rejoicing when they listen to it. Because having just this expectation of volume over your head and no clear through line is no clear data, just produce, produce, produce is a recipe for burnout and high turnover.

He had so many hot takes. And I feel like this episode is going to be so great for the boots on the ground marketers. I feel like they're going to be rejoicing when they listen to it. Because having just this expectation of volume over your head and no clear through line is no clear data, just produce, produce, produce is a recipe for burnout and high turnover.

He had so many hot takes. And I feel like this episode is going to be so great for the boots on the ground marketers. I feel like they're going to be rejoicing when they listen to it. Because having just this expectation of volume over your head and no clear through line is no clear data, just produce, produce, produce is a recipe for burnout and high turnover.

I feel like everything he was saying is just things people need to hear right now. Not only is customer experience embedded into every stage of the customer journey, but marketing's a huge part of customer experience. And as someone who's worked in marketing, I've never thought of it that way.

I feel like everything he was saying is just things people need to hear right now. Not only is customer experience embedded into every stage of the customer journey, but marketing's a huge part of customer experience. And as someone who's worked in marketing, I've never thought of it that way.

I feel like everything he was saying is just things people need to hear right now. Not only is customer experience embedded into every stage of the customer journey, but marketing's a huge part of customer experience. And as someone who's worked in marketing, I've never thought of it that way.

Can I ask a question about that?

Can I ask a question about that?

Can I ask a question about that?

Wouldn't you say with like a lot like high volume content marketing gives you more of an opportunity to illustrate your brand's personality and your values kind of broadly? Like, is that?

Wouldn't you say with like a lot like high volume content marketing gives you more of an opportunity to illustrate your brand's personality and your values kind of broadly? Like, is that?

Wouldn't you say with like a lot like high volume content marketing gives you more of an opportunity to illustrate your brand's personality and your values kind of broadly? Like, is that?

Sure. I mean, I mean, you're getting more that you're competing with all these other companies that are just I mean, you are throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks. But there's so much out there all the time. So I could see the argument for what we need to we need to compete and have some edge and illustrate what are our values, what our personality is.

Sure. I mean, I mean, you're getting more that you're competing with all these other companies that are just I mean, you are throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks. But there's so much out there all the time. So I could see the argument for what we need to we need to compete and have some edge and illustrate what are our values, what our personality is.

Sure. I mean, I mean, you're getting more that you're competing with all these other companies that are just I mean, you are throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks. But there's so much out there all the time. So I could see the argument for what we need to we need to compete and have some edge and illustrate what are our values, what our personality is.

Do you think it's easy for legacy brands to have that kind of operating model? Like a startup might need to lean a little bit more heavily on broader content marketing that maybe doesn't have as clear of a through line just to stay relevant?

Do you think it's easy for legacy brands to have that kind of operating model? Like a startup might need to lean a little bit more heavily on broader content marketing that maybe doesn't have as clear of a through line just to stay relevant?

Do you think it's easy for legacy brands to have that kind of operating model? Like a startup might need to lean a little bit more heavily on broader content marketing that maybe doesn't have as clear of a through line just to stay relevant?

You mentioned doing some research on Cisco and you found some cool things. Tell me about that.

You mentioned doing some research on Cisco and you found some cool things. Tell me about that.

You mentioned doing some research on Cisco and you found some cool things. Tell me about that.

80%.

80%.

80%.

That's awesome. Is there an example of a question or a pain point that you would ask somebody in an interview? Like, you know, how do you feel about this? Or do you give them like a customer pain point and ask them to kind of illustrate it for you?

That's awesome. Is there an example of a question or a pain point that you would ask somebody in an interview? Like, you know, how do you feel about this? Or do you give them like a customer pain point and ask them to kind of illustrate it for you?

That's awesome. Is there an example of a question or a pain point that you would ask somebody in an interview? Like, you know, how do you feel about this? Or do you give them like a customer pain point and ask them to kind of illustrate it for you?

Do you find that that is commonly throwing people off? What? Is it often that it's throwing a candidate off, kind of, and they come in kind of needing to unlearn some more action-oriented mindset?

Do you find that that is commonly throwing people off? What? Is it often that it's throwing a candidate off, kind of, and they come in kind of needing to unlearn some more action-oriented mindset?

Do you find that that is commonly throwing people off? What? Is it often that it's throwing a candidate off, kind of, and they come in kind of needing to unlearn some more action-oriented mindset?

Would you say that's one of the biggest challenges in your role? Like having to help people unlearn things?

Would you say that's one of the biggest challenges in your role? Like having to help people unlearn things?

Would you say that's one of the biggest challenges in your role? Like having to help people unlearn things?

It's innate.

It's innate.

It's innate.

I have a question just surrounding collaboration and leadership with remote work. Have you seen – because in my head, remote work is like very humanistic. It feels empathetic because you're giving people their own space, their own flexibility, autonomy, and trust through remote work. But then it also – it sets this – It's giving a separation between you and your team.

I have a question just surrounding collaboration and leadership with remote work. Have you seen – because in my head, remote work is like very humanistic. It feels empathetic because you're giving people their own space, their own flexibility, autonomy, and trust through remote work. But then it also – it sets this – It's giving a separation between you and your team.

I have a question just surrounding collaboration and leadership with remote work. Have you seen – because in my head, remote work is like very humanistic. It feels empathetic because you're giving people their own space, their own flexibility, autonomy, and trust through remote work. But then it also – it sets this – It's giving a separation between you and your team.

Everything is digital and everything's already very digital in our lives. So have you seen it hinder empathy just internally or collaboration or is it the opposite?

Everything is digital and everything's already very digital in our lives. So have you seen it hinder empathy just internally or collaboration or is it the opposite?

Everything is digital and everything's already very digital in our lives. So have you seen it hinder empathy just internally or collaboration or is it the opposite?

Especially if we got someone narrating. Yeah.

Especially if we got someone narrating. Yeah.

Especially if we got someone narrating. Yeah.

We're going to do a fun little lightning round game. It's called Relevant or Ridiculous. And I'm asking both of you guys. So you can both answer. I'm going to give you a trend, a tool, a topic that's going to kind of be all over the place. And you can just say what comes to your brain first. OK. OK. Mascot marketing. Think Duolingo.

We're going to do a fun little lightning round game. It's called Relevant or Ridiculous. And I'm asking both of you guys. So you can both answer. I'm going to give you a trend, a tool, a topic that's going to kind of be all over the place. And you can just say what comes to your brain first. OK. OK. Mascot marketing. Think Duolingo.

We're going to do a fun little lightning round game. It's called Relevant or Ridiculous. And I'm asking both of you guys. So you can both answer. I'm going to give you a trend, a tool, a topic that's going to kind of be all over the place. And you can just say what comes to your brain first. OK. OK. Mascot marketing. Think Duolingo.

Not relevant.

Not relevant.

Not relevant.

Okay. Chat GBT. Relevant.

Okay. Chat GBT. Relevant.

Okay. Chat GBT. Relevant.

LinkedIn thought leadership.

LinkedIn thought leadership.

LinkedIn thought leadership.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

100% remote work. 100% remote work. Relevant. Agentic AI assistance. Agentic AI assistance. SMS marketing or SMS CX. SMS marketing or SMS CX.

100% remote work. 100% remote work. Relevant. Agentic AI assistance. Agentic AI assistance. SMS marketing or SMS CX. SMS marketing or SMS CX.

100% remote work. 100% remote work. Relevant. Agentic AI assistance. Agentic AI assistance. SMS marketing or SMS CX. SMS marketing or SMS CX.

I keep getting, Tom, come out to vote. I get them all addressed to my dad. I'm being called Phillip in my inbox all the time. I'm like, are you giving my number out?

I keep getting, Tom, come out to vote. I get them all addressed to my dad. I'm being called Phillip in my inbox all the time. I'm like, are you giving my number out?

I keep getting, Tom, come out to vote. I get them all addressed to my dad. I'm being called Phillip in my inbox all the time. I'm like, are you giving my number out?

My dad is just setting me up for it. Emoji use in enterprise comms. Emoji use in enterprise comms. Relevant. It's not on here, but I'm going to ask a similar question. Gen Z slang in enterprise comms for marketing.

My dad is just setting me up for it. Emoji use in enterprise comms. Emoji use in enterprise comms. Relevant. It's not on here, but I'm going to ask a similar question. Gen Z slang in enterprise comms for marketing.

My dad is just setting me up for it. Emoji use in enterprise comms. Emoji use in enterprise comms. Relevant. It's not on here, but I'm going to ask a similar question. Gen Z slang in enterprise comms for marketing.

Well, forced.

Well, forced.

Well, forced.

Yeah, like when you're entering a funnel, like as a customer.

Yeah, like when you're entering a funnel, like as a customer.

Yeah, like when you're entering a funnel, like as a customer.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay. Webinars with 50 plus slides. Ridiculous.

Okay. Webinars with 50 plus slides. Ridiculous.

Okay. Webinars with 50 plus slides. Ridiculous.

Never again. Customer journey maps.

Never again. Customer journey maps.

Never again. Customer journey maps.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm shocked.

I'm shocked.

I'm shocked.

Ridiculous. No, I'm just kidding.

Ridiculous. No, I'm just kidding.

Ridiculous. No, I'm just kidding.

Branded podcasts.

Branded podcasts.

Branded podcasts.

Relevant. Thank you for saying that. Of course. Great answers. All right. That concludes our lightning round. Thank you, Ben.

Relevant. Thank you for saying that. Of course. Great answers. All right. That concludes our lightning round. Thank you, Ben.

Relevant. Thank you for saying that. Of course. Great answers. All right. That concludes our lightning round. Thank you, Ben.

Thanks, Rose. Yeah, you're welcome.

Thanks, Rose. Yeah, you're welcome.

Thanks, Rose. Yeah, you're welcome.

What kind of food?

What kind of food?

What kind of food?