Ross Douthat

You have outbreaks of measles and whooping cough and other diseases that vaccines are supposed to conquer.

What do you think is the Trump administration public health strategy around vaccines, if you were to describe it generally?

And it's lower in rural counties.

It's lower in some immigrant communities.

Yeah, in some places it was 80%.

There's a bunch of different zones, some red state, some blue state.

Right.

Yes.

I mean, I don't find the language of misinformation helpful.

I do think there are people who misinform people.

But in my experience, and I've had a lot of it in sort of the weird zones of beliefs about health in America—

people who have wild ideas or paranoid ideas tend to be very, very sincere about them.

And so I agree with you.

There's a lot to be said for trying to engage with sincere people.

At the same time, there are a bunch of ideas about vaccines that are just false, right?

And it seems to me that part of what the Trump administration has done is sort of bring inside its tent in terms of sort of appointments and people who are speaking publicly.

People whose ideas, I would say, are probably just wrong.

And I don't know if you would agree with that, but it seems like there's a risk, an obvious risk there, right?

But no one in the Biden administration started out and said, I think this person is wrong, but nonetheless, I want to bring them into the conversation and give them a platform.

Right?