Russ Hawkins

Uh, and, uh,

They remembered me and actually AKKR decided to enter into the debt business.

And I think I might have been the first deal that they did in the debt business.

No, I don't believe so.

Well, they changed over time.

I mean, there's a wide, wide kind of census of debt providers in there.

And they're all over the place from, you know, from banks to private debt providers.

You know, early on, we were paying fairly, fairly hefty rates.

So they're getting good returns usually.

Low teens.

low teens and you know a little bit of uh a little bit of equity in there as well as like like two to three percent warrants smaller actually in most cases one to three has been the been my experience okay um and uh as we've you know as our revenues have gotten more predictable uh we're able to do better on the interest rates and uh uh you know now we have uh

basically a bank as the lead debt provider, and then they are subordinating it to some of the historical debt financing companies.

They're not really banks.

They're just more risky providers, I guess.

Quadria is Quadria.

And yeah, they, they did this one and they are pretty good at that.

These guys are, you know, ex Marlin guys for the most part.

It wasn't the right time to sell.

I don't think we should have sold, to be honest with you.

Uh, because the investors and the owners of the business decided that they wanted to do it for their own reasons, which is, you know, which is a problem.