Rutger Bregman

And it's a real example of survival of the friendliest, because if they were really like nasty and not working together, well, we wouldn't be here able to tell their story. Now, what's happening there? I think it's really a combination of things.

And it's a real example of survival of the friendliest, because if they were really like nasty and not working together, well, we wouldn't be here able to tell their story. Now, what's happening there? I think it's really a combination of things.

Obviously, it's Tongan culture, right, which is a very cooperative culture with very essential skills where kids learn to swim, you know, basically in their first year already. So that's obviously essential. I also think, though, that it is a part of human nature what we see expressed there. As I said, survival of the friendliest.

Obviously, it's Tongan culture, right, which is a very cooperative culture with very essential skills where kids learn to swim, you know, basically in their first year already. So that's obviously essential. I also think, though, that it is a part of human nature what we see expressed there. As I said, survival of the friendliest.

It's kids working together and exhibiting traits that are also very much part of who we are as a species. You know, to Trevor's point again, this is one of those things where you can hold two seemingly contradictory thoughts in your mind at the same time. Yes, we're incredibly selfish, cruel. We're also one of the most cooperative and altruistic species in the animal kingdom.

It's kids working together and exhibiting traits that are also very much part of who we are as a species. You know, to Trevor's point again, this is one of those things where you can hold two seemingly contradictory thoughts in your mind at the same time. Yes, we're incredibly selfish, cruel. We're also one of the most cooperative and altruistic species in the animal kingdom.

Yeah. And this is particularly the case when you look at natural disasters. So look at how disasters are portrayed in series and movies, and it's the same thing all the time. Civilization is a thin veneer, and people very quickly turn into animals, beasts, barbarians. They start raping, looting, plundering. And that's also how the press often behaves.

Yeah. And this is particularly the case when you look at natural disasters. So look at how disasters are portrayed in series and movies, and it's the same thing all the time. Civilization is a thin veneer, and people very quickly turn into animals, beasts, barbarians. They start raping, looting, plundering. And that's also how the press often behaves.

The most famous case here is Katrina, 2005, the terrible flooding. And the press was full of these horrible stories of people getting shot, of the looting and the plundering. Well, actually, we have got 60, 70 years of empirical evidence of anthropologists, sociologists going into these places and actually interviewing people, doing the rigorous empirical research.

The most famous case here is Katrina, 2005, the terrible flooding. And the press was full of these horrible stories of people getting shot, of the looting and the plundering. Well, actually, we have got 60, 70 years of empirical evidence of anthropologists, sociologists going into these places and actually interviewing people, doing the rigorous empirical research.

And time and time again, they found that disasters actually bring out the best in people. So every single time, doesn't matter where it happens, whether it's Japan or the US or South Africa, you get an explosion of altruism. Because once things really get serious like that, people are like, okay, we've got to stick together. We've got to survive together.

And time and time again, they found that disasters actually bring out the best in people. So every single time, doesn't matter where it happens, whether it's Japan or the US or South Africa, you get an explosion of altruism. Because once things really get serious like that, people are like, okay, we've got to stick together. We've got to survive together.

Sure, there are always some examples that then will get magnified in the press. But like the big headline story should be, oh, people are working together once again.

Sure, there are always some examples that then will get magnified in the press. But like the big headline story should be, oh, people are working together once again.

50%?

50%?

Yeah, it's really extraordinary. Child mortality has been declining massively. On the other hand, though, I also understand why people are really scared. In many respects, I'm pretty terrified. Do you guys know this website called Our World in Data? It's my favorite website. Our World in Data. Yeah.

Yeah, it's really extraordinary. Child mortality has been declining massively. On the other hand, though, I also understand why people are really scared. In many respects, I'm pretty terrified. Do you guys know this website called Our World in Data? It's my favorite website. Our World in Data. Yeah.

It's really a great website that has the best collection of data on what's going on in the world, basically. And the guy who founded that is a statistician called Max Roser. And he always says that there are three statements that are true at the same time. So the first statement is the world is bad. I mean, that is true.

It's really a great website that has the best collection of data on what's going on in the world, basically. And the guy who founded that is a statistician called Max Roser. And he always says that there are three statements that are true at the same time. So the first statement is the world is bad. I mean, that is true.