Human-Kind or Human Evil with Rutger Bregman
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What inspired Rutger Bregman to confront billionaires at Davos?
I'm actually in for the show. We're going to make the show. Toddler vs. Pig. I need it. This is What Now? with Trevor Noah. Rutger, welcome to the podcast. I was thinking about, you know, having you on and I was like, do you get invited back anyway? This is the thing I found myself asking.
Well, you invited me back, Trevor.
Well, I mean, yeah, but I don't think you've ever said anything against me. And I was just thinking, you're the guy who went to Davos and told all the billionaires who were there, like literally everyone. You sat there and you basically said, you guys are a bunch of hypocrites. I'm paraphrasing, obviously. But what I think they heard was, you guys are hypocrites. You are not paying your fair share. And you're acting high and mighty when, you know, avoiding the elephants in the room. You went to TED and you told everyone there they should be giving away their money. And everyone in the room is like the 1% and poor people are actually right and the rich people are wrong for the way they're doing it. So I really wondered, do you get invited back to places?
Did Davos ever invite you back? Did Ted? Where do you find that you have the best recidivism rates?
Well, no, I didn't get another invitation to go to Davos. It was something I said, I guess. Tucker Carlson, I also never heard from him again. But apart from that, you know, yeah, people invite me back.
Wait, but okay, help me out with the Tucker one. I thought that you and him would have been on the same page for what he's been saying. Where was the big divergence?
Well, I mean, this was just after I had gone to Davos and indeed I had said some nasty things about billionaires and their massive tax avoidance and their massive tax evasion. And then, you know, how they keep whining about their philanthropy. Well, maybe, you know, just start with paying your fair share in taxes. So then Tucker Carlson invited me on his show because apparently he liked it that I had, you know, stuck it to the global issue or something like that. And I was like, well, you know, you're also the elite, you know, you're part of the problem. Like you're, what is it? A millionaire funded by billionaires. So he didn't like that.
Is wealth distribution skewed globally?
Love it. Where's your cut up point? Like what's the income where you won't throw shade? I'm very curious about that. What's the number?
It's a good question. Depends on where you live, I guess. I mean, I just moved to New York and it feels like you need to be a multimillionaire even to raise kids here.
Yes, you do.
I guess that depends. But it's easy to forget how wealthy people are when they live in rich countries.
Yes.
Where I'm from, the Netherlands, if you have just a median income, which is about, what is it, 35,000 euros annually. So what is that, $40,000 or something? You're part of the richest 3.5% in the world. So... Remember Occupy Wall Street where people were saying we are the 99% and they are the 1%?
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Chapters
7 chapters
1
What inspired Rutger Bregman to confront billionaires at Davos?
1:20–3:39
2
Is wealth distribution skewed globally?
3:39–10:02
3
How have historical movements succeeded in changing society?
10:02–17:27
4
What does 'survival of the friendliest' mean for human evolution?
17:27–24:27
5
Do personal experiences shape our views on human nature?
24:27–31:02
6
How do societal conditions influence our perception of safety and trust?
31:02–39:38
7
Can optimism about human nature coexist with real-world challenges?
39:38–1:21:51
Speakers
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