Rutger Bregman

Hmm. So one of the main characters in the book is this guy called Thomas Clarkson. Yeah, a British abolitionist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's become sort of my personal hero, even though he's now dead for two centuries. He participated in an essay contest at Cambridge University. And just by chance, he had to answer this question, is it okay to own other human beings?

Hmm. So one of the main characters in the book is this guy called Thomas Clarkson. Yeah, a British abolitionist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's become sort of my personal hero, even though he's now dead for two centuries. He participated in an essay contest at Cambridge University. And just by chance, he had to answer this question, is it okay to own other human beings?

He had never really thought about the question, did his research, won first prize. And then after he attended the prize ceremony in Cambridge, he went back on his horse to London where he lived. And he was still thinking about the essay and was like, if this is actually true, then shouldn't someone do something about it? And he steps off his horse and he's like,

He had never really thought about the question, did his research, won first prize. And then after he attended the prize ceremony in Cambridge, he went back on his horse to London where he lived. And he was still thinking about the essay and was like, if this is actually true, then shouldn't someone do something about it? And he steps off his horse and he's like,

Well, maybe I got to be the one to do it. And you can clearly see this mix of idealism and vanity within him. On the one hand, yes, he deeply cares about the suffering of enslaved people. But yeah, he's also, you know, a little bit of a vain man. You know, he likes to see himself as that historical hero who devotes his life to this great quest of abolishing slavery.

Well, maybe I got to be the one to do it. And you can clearly see this mix of idealism and vanity within him. On the one hand, yes, he deeply cares about the suffering of enslaved people. But yeah, he's also, you know, a little bit of a vain man. You know, he likes to see himself as that historical hero who devotes his life to this great quest of abolishing slavery.

And in the first seven years, he traveled 35,000 miles across the United Kingdom on horse,

And in the first seven years, he traveled 35,000 miles across the United Kingdom on horse,

So after seven years of doing that, he had an utter and total nervous breakdown, what we would call a burnout today. So he was really gone, basically. And when I read that, I was like, okay, Thomas, you should have done your breathing exercises, right? So, yeah, he took it a little bit too far. But let's be honest. Today, a lot of people get a burnout while they do jobs they love.

So after seven years of doing that, he had an utter and total nervous breakdown, what we would call a burnout today. So he was really gone, basically. And when I read that, I was like, okay, Thomas, you should have done your breathing exercises, right? So, yeah, he took it a little bit too far. But let's be honest. Today, a lot of people get a burnout while they do jobs they love.

don't really like all that much or that don't really contribute all that much to the welfare of the world. So if we're going to get a burnout anyway, we might as well do something useful.

don't really like all that much or that don't really contribute all that much to the welfare of the world. So if we're going to get a burnout anyway, we might as well do something useful.

Yeah, yeah. I come back to this quote from Margaret Mead again and again. You know, the very famous quote, never doubt the power of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens to change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. And that quote is usually being used by starry-eyed idealists who say, look, we can do this. It's only a few of us now, but we can make a difference.

Yeah, yeah. I come back to this quote from Margaret Mead again and again. You know, the very famous quote, never doubt the power of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens to change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. And that quote is usually being used by starry-eyed idealists who say, look, we can do this. It's only a few of us now, but we can make a difference.

But I always felt that it's a really brutal quote. Why? Because she's basically saying that the vast majority of people don't change the world. the vast majority of people are just living their lives and not doing all that much. Look, I used to think about this quite differently. I used to have a more Marxist approach to history.

But I always felt that it's a really brutal quote. Why? Because she's basically saying that the vast majority of people don't change the world. the vast majority of people are just living their lives and not doing all that much. Look, I used to think about this quite differently. I used to have a more Marxist approach to history.

If you would have asked me something like, oh, why was slavery abolished in the end? I would have said, well, yeah, probably the Industrial Revolution, right? Probably it wasn't profitable anymore. Well, to the contrary, it was actually abolished at the height of its profitability and it was incredibly contingent.

If you would have asked me something like, oh, why was slavery abolished in the end? I would have said, well, yeah, probably the Industrial Revolution, right? Probably it wasn't profitable anymore. Well, to the contrary, it was actually abolished at the height of its profitability and it was incredibly contingent.

And if a couple of people like Thomas Clarkson would have fallen off their horse in the year 1786 or a little bit earlier, then that would have been very bad news. The history could have looked very differently.

And if a couple of people like Thomas Clarkson would have fallen off their horse in the year 1786 or a little bit earlier, then that would have been very bad news. The history could have looked very differently.