Rutger Bregman

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, absolutely.

Oh, absolutely.

So I've got one chapter in the book about Nader's Raiders, you know, Ralph Nader in the late sixties and the seventies built this incredible movement of young people who were like, we're not going to go work for some boring corporate law firm. We're going to go to Washington to lobby for the good cause.

So I've got one chapter in the book about Nader's Raiders, you know, Ralph Nader in the late sixties and the seventies built this incredible movement of young people who were like, we're not going to go work for some boring corporate law firm. We're going to go to Washington to lobby for the good cause.

And there's one historian who estimates that they had their fingerprints on at least 25 pieces of federal legislation. The Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act that saved, you know, hundreds of thousands of lives. It's really a beautiful example of what moral ambition can mean in practice.

And there's one historian who estimates that they had their fingerprints on at least 25 pieces of federal legislation. The Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act that saved, you know, hundreds of thousands of lives. It's really a beautiful example of what moral ambition can mean in practice.

And at some point, a third of Harvard Law School applied to work for Ralph Nader to just go and work 100 hours a week for a pretty small salary because it was just the very coolest thing you could do. Now, right-wingers looked at that model very carefully.

And at some point, a third of Harvard Law School applied to work for Ralph Nader to just go and work 100 hours a week for a pretty small salary because it was just the very coolest thing you could do. Now, right-wingers looked at that model very carefully.

And yeah, some historians would argue that that was like the beginning of the corporate takeover of America, where they built this huge network of think tanks, you know, the Heritage Foundation and the Federalist Society and the Super PACs and you name it.

And yeah, some historians would argue that that was like the beginning of the corporate takeover of America, where they built this huge network of think tanks, you know, the Heritage Foundation and the Federalist Society and the Super PACs and you name it.

And I think it's pretty clear that I disagree with most of their goals, but I'm somewhat in awe of that perseverance because that is really what it takes to Take the movement against Roe v. Wade. They built a whole network of 5,000 clerks and lawyers and did so many, you know, strategic lawsuits. And that all culminated in the moment of the Dobbs decision, of course. I mean, that's what it takes.

And I think it's pretty clear that I disagree with most of their goals, but I'm somewhat in awe of that perseverance because that is really what it takes to Take the movement against Roe v. Wade. They built a whole network of 5,000 clerks and lawyers and did so many, you know, strategic lawsuits. And that all culminated in the moment of the Dobbs decision, of course. I mean, that's what it takes.

It's about building a whole ecosystem.

It's about building a whole ecosystem.

Yes. So I think there's a real lack of ambition among progressives and the left these days. Take the environmental movement, for example. You've got so many people who are obsessed with their own footprint. And so there are all these commandments. You don't eat meat. You don't fly. You don't even have kids. You don't use plastic straws. But then in the

Yes. So I think there's a real lack of ambition among progressives and the left these days. Take the environmental movement, for example. You've got so many people who are obsessed with their own footprint. And so there are all these commandments. You don't eat meat. You don't fly. You don't even have kids. You don't use plastic straws. But then in the

best possible scenario, you will have reduced your footprint to zero and you might as well not have existed, right? And then death is the highest ideal, not very ambitious in my view. And the same is true for those who are called quote-unquote woke. Often accused of going too far, right? These people. Well, I think they don't go nearly far enough.

best possible scenario, you will have reduced your footprint to zero and you might as well not have existed, right? And then death is the highest ideal, not very ambitious in my view. And the same is true for those who are called quote-unquote woke. Often accused of going too far, right? These people. Well, I think they don't go nearly far enough.