Ryan Burge

So if you're at that little church that's declining in the Midwest.

I mean, what's your option at this point?

You're not going to start like a praise band and bring new people in.

Might as well preach the gospel as best you understand it and sort of let the chips fall.

That's a fatalist position, by the way.

I totally understand that.

But what's your alternative?

The data says that, you know, mainline clergy are definitely much more squishy on these theological issues than evangelical clergy are.

But I think this is like one of those like haunting questions that I have is a lot of people are doubters.

You know, they can never certainly believe any doctrine of their church.

Like the pastor stands up and says something very stridently and confidently and the people in the pews go, yeah, I hope so.

Or I guess so.

Or maybe that's true.

You know, I just think it's more prevalent in the mainline.

than it is in the evangelical church.

And let's be honest, Ross, in the Catholic church, it's widespread.

The people in the pews are not there because they agree with the church's teaching on a whole bunch of stuff.

I mean, a majority of Catholics are in favor of abortion.

Almost all Catholics have used birth control.

A majority of Catholics are in favor of female priests, and yet they show up because it's more than the belief thing.