Ryan Sean Adams

So people are losing their money.

And it's hard to kind of trace that back to individual victims.

I'm wondering, in these types of cases with the seized assets, do victims ever get some of that remuneration, some of their money back?

Or is it just too impossible to handle something at that scale?

By the way, I'm just curious, did the Nancy Guthrie case get resolved?

That was kind of in my feed and it was big news and then I never followed that through to resolution.

Wow, chilling.

Can we go back to what you were talking about with respect to on-chain money laundering and how this process, this flow works?

So North Korea has hacked and stolen $6 billion.

We've seen a few cases in April, the Lyft case, the Kelp Dow case, some other details we'll get into.

What do they do after they acquire the cryptocurrency?

So just like one thing that we often see is they will move to the highest security, most decentralized chain possible, it seems like.

So if they're on something like Tron, they might move to Ethereum.

Right.

and then later possibly even to Bitcoin.

So that seems to be something that happens, at least that I've seen.

They also seem to use some of the on-chain privacy type tools.

So Tornado Cash is often cited.

So if they have Ether on Ethereum, then they'll try to move some of that through Tornado Cash.

oftentimes it also seems like they then move some funds to Bitcoin and they use something called ThorChain in order to move across kind of that bridge.