Ryan Sean Adams

And what snapped her out of it?

The idea that you promote that these things are games.

Many of these systems...

that she's engaged in, the rankings, the metrics, if she could step back and get some distance from them, if she could start asking questions about these systems rather than just accepting them.

She changed her phone background to this constant reminder, is this the game you really want to be playing?

I really enjoyed that because it's a question I think that has some salience for everyone listening.

Is this the game you really want to be playing?

Why is that an important question to you, T?

Okay, T, let's test this because I like that definition and I understand it very clearly through the lens of the mountain climber example, but...

So here are some serious, I'll call them serious games that I play, like almost like career games, right?

So one is a game that David and I play is maybe the podcast game.

Right.

Where we create content and we have guests and subjects we want to talk about, but we also have a scoreboard related to that.

Like we have downloads, we have views.

Another game that David and I play is social media game where you have tweets and some of them are successful.

They get a lot of likes.

They get a lot of retweets.

Some are not so successful.

And we have social media games across YouTube as well, right?

It's like,