Ryan Urban

We say we close 20% of those deals of the demos we have, and then we back into a price.

We'd look at, in that case, somewhere we'd like to acquire that qualified demo for about $2,000, which is kind of a, that would be our CP objective on that.

Yeah, well, that that's how you typically look at that.

I think that's a I think that's a crappy stat.

Yeah, no, I don't.

I mean, you could we can that number looks very good in our decks.

I just think that stupid number by some Harvard analysis actually doesn't make any sense in the real world.

Yeah, when that number, one divided by your churn, will project your LTV at like, oh, you're three and a half years or four years.

Meanwhile, every year your business changes, your contract values change, your contract lengths change, your product can get better or worse.

So it's really not relevant at all.

And projecting out of anything that projects at LTV a few years in advance is nonsense to me.

So I think you got to look at a much more short-term basis.

So I look at CPA objective based on where we currently are, what I consider the closer of my salespeople, what I consider a sales cycle, what I think is the potential upsell expansion opportunity based on that certain category.

So we can upsell e-commerce a lot more than say B2B right now.

So B2B, we'd have to acquire those leads or those qualified demos at a much lower price than e-commerce company, because I knew the room for expansion differently.

You'll add that into the LTV.

No one knows how long.

What I'm saying, that formula is nonsense because it takes where your current churn is or recent churn is

or aggregate churn, and it projects something into the future.

You don't know.