Sam Bungey

Because it's obviously, they're there to gather intelligence.

in an adversarial way.

And like we said, it's a good cover to be a diplomat.

But according to the agents we spoke to, it's sort of a total fig leaf.

Like all the Cuban intelligence know who you are before you step off the plane kind of thing.

And, yeah, it's not just about finding out what they're doing.

It's not just about surveillance.

It's about the way these guys talk about it.

It's to let you know that they own you while you're there.

It's to try to get in your head.

And to the extent that you don't know when something happens, whether they are responsible for that terrible thing that happened to you or whether you've imagined it or whether, you know, some combination of the two things.

Yeah.

Yeah, maybe less reliable.

And the other thing is they're constantly being bested by that.

Or they were in the 80s.

Suzanne Matthews, who Jennifer spoke to, a former agent from that kind of period,

So just before she came, there was this massive hoo-ha where they had been working all these agents, like dozens of Cuban assets, right?

People in Cuba who were supposedly feeding them intelligence turned out to all be Cuban spies who were like just... And they'd been filming them and they broadcast this special TV show showing all these like dead drops that what the Americans thought were like exchanging information, but it's all...

It's all candid camera.

They were totally played.