Sam Fragoso

And those are just the ones we know about.

Do you think the lack of culpability is the result of people believing less and less in the value of our largest media institutions?

We've spoken extensively about the risks involved with the job.

But I'm thinking about the consequences of continuing to do this work, as I know you will.

Because you say in the film, I've set it up so if something does happen to me, they have Paul.

And that really, I have to say, it kind of broke my heart because the way you've set it up in the film, it plays as if you've created conditions almost like a rehearsal for him and the kids of what life could be like should you not be able to make it back.

Have you seen the documentary Salt of the Earth?

Yeah.

There's a part I want to just quote for you.

Like, well, around the same time that you walked into that exhibit that you mentioned earlier in the mid-90s, Sebastiao Salgado said, after years of photographing famine, war, and genocide in Africa and Europe, quote, I did not believe in anything.

I do not believe in the salvation of the human race.

Our history is a history of war.

It is an endless story.

We should see these images to see how terrible our species is.

Now, he passed away earlier this year.

And I know he's been a major influence on your work and your career.

And the photos you're trying to produce, work that affects policy, that captures the repercussions of those policies, the fallout.

But when you hear that, by the time he was at the tail end of his career, he was way down to the point where he didn't see the point of what he was doing.

He did not have any hope left.

How does that quote sit with you in 2025?