Sanne de Boer

And I must add, maybe, that an important decision that I've made while writing the book, and that was also because friends and colleagues had told me really...

Do not do this.

So I speak about all these cases openly.

I name names, I name places.

But I am aware, of course, when I'm back in Calabria, in my village, that it becomes very personal and it becomes a very sensitive subject, not just to people related to the clans who...

I'm pretty much aware of who their families are, but also to their neighbors.

It's such a sensitive subject.

It's such a complicated subject.

And I was, in a sense, I was stupid enough, you could say, as a foreigner to, you know, put my nose into that and to even talk about this.

Not, of course, with the intention to expose them or to shame Calabrian, the opposite.

I wanted to tell the stories of resilience in the night.

I wanted to tell how courageous people were in Calabria to even to deal with this situation and speak out about it.

I did decide, however, not to name the people in my village, not to name the name of my village, also because I don't want to stigmatize it as a, you know, it's just a regular village.

It's a beautiful village with lovely people.

And it has a small, tiny minority of criminals that are complicating matters.

But it was no use and it might have been – I think it probably was a smart move and it helps me feel a little bit safer and less – and I hardly ever speak about my work anyway when I'm there.

So the idea is probably, if I would say in my village, yeah, I'm a journalist, I write about the Ndrangheta, people would probably also, yeah, hate me for that.

But it's not necessarily because they are on the side of the Ndrangheta, but it's more about this sense of extracting also a very sad story from their territory and

You know, it's amazing to me that book has been translated now, and it's even resonating on the other side of the world, as you tell me, Michelle.

And I'm really honored to be a guest on your podcast, but I'm still a freelance journalist that doesn't make a whole lot of money.