Sarah Kreps

And I don't think that's what has happened.

But I do think that once you're involved in a war,

they just become a pretty indispensable part of modern warfare.

And there, again, it's the cost, but it's also just the reproducibility, just that these can be produced quickly.

And they're very dynamic.

And that's what I think was seen in the Ukraine war, which is that

it was possible then to adapt and learn on the fly and figure out what was working, figure out what wasn't working.

But then every little mistake that was made was not coming at the cost of one's own side in terms of human lives.

And especially in the case of Ukraine, I think that was really important because this is a country that would run out of military-aged people.

And so the ability to use drones is really important there.

What I think has happened, or it could happen in the US case,

where this will spare, you know, American personnel coming back in body bags, which has its own cost.

And I think this is what I have shown in my work, which is that, you know, if you're using drones, people are less in direct contact with the cost of war.

And so you can see how these wars might just kind of go on without...

without constraints.

And so you can see this even with the Trump administration's war powers justification that this isn't hostilities because they're not putting boots on the ground, which is exactly what the Obama administration had said in 2011.

And so it allows these leaders really to be able to deploy military force without consent, really, of the American people or of Congress.

Right.

It just is so much more distant when they, there are a lot of democratic theories of warfare that would say that what made democracies different is that their people would bear the cost in blood and treasure.

And now you have drones that are low cost.