Sarah McCammon

I mean, there are sort of socially conservative pro-natalist groups that I think just – I think they would say that they just see –

Giving life to a new generation, building a family as sort of a core part of being human, as sort of the way that humans were meant to live.

And some of this might be rooted in religious beliefs.

but not necessarily all of it.

For some, and I don't want to paint all pronatalists in this way, but for some, there are racial and demographic and cultural anxieties that play a part.

Yeah.

And I, there, there are those who feel that way, you know, and I also want to say, I put that question to a pretty conservative leaning group, the Institute for Family Studies, one of their researchers, and he pointed out that, you know, in the US, at least,

The birth rate has historically been higher in recent years among non-white groups and, you know, especially non-white groups that have a large percentage of immigrants.

Those groups tend to have more babies than the white population.

And so his response to that was, look, this isn't actually for us about race.

It's about a desire to see families built and flourishing.

And so but certainly there are those elements within the pro-natalist movement that are worried about racial demographics, for sure.

Well, in talking to people, my colleague Brian Mann and I, who sort of pitched this extended series on the birth rate and birth rate decline, we've talked to people all over the world, and several of our colleagues have helped us as well.

And I think we've consistently heard

about that, or at least that perception or that fear of stigma for either, you know, not having not becoming a parent or not having more children.

There's a

for one of my stories, I went to Finland, which is a country that has a very different culture, a very different sort of political culture around support for parents, and yet also has a declining birth rate.

I talked to a woman there who's part of an organization for people who are child-free by choice.

This group actually formed to find support around being child-free and just the idea that this is something that is very intentional.

But there is a stigma around it for a lot of people, and