Sarah McCammon

I think it is actually much more normal now, though, to have no children or few children.

I mean...

You pointed to the data that suggests more and more millennials and Gen Z feel this way.

And we talked to so many people who were just kind of like, yeah, you know, I was going about my life.

I liked my career.

I liked my friends.

I like travel, you know, and it just wasn't a priority.

And so I think that it's becoming more normal for millennials.

And sort of especially in mainstream culture for women not to center motherhood.

Of course, I am a mother, so I don't really know firsthand what it's like not to have kids.

And I had them quite young.

So, I mean, I had them in my 20s and at just 30, the second one, just barely 30, which for professional women is pretty young.

So, you know, I haven't had that experience.

I haven't had the experience of being into my late later thirties without children.

And I don't know what that stigma might be like firsthand.

I will say, but, um, and if I could say one other thing about that, I think there's also some stigma in the other direction as families get smaller.

You know, I spent a lot of time on social media looking at, um, kind of searching for comments about parenting and motherhood.

And, uh, I've seen, you know, this is just social media, but I've seen women with, you know, three or four kids tell stories about

being out in public and people making, you know, the joke like, well, you know, you know how, where those come from, right?

You know how that happens, right?