Sarah Paine

And I think it was after that that Ronald Reagan started moderating his rhetoric.

He's like, oh, you don't want to have them on the edge like this.

This is not going to be beneficial.

So it was quite close.

The advantage in the Cold War is all our leaders all the way through Bush Sr.

were all veterans of World War II.

In one way or another, they'd serve.

Some of them on the battle line, like Bush Sr.

had, and others near enough so that they understood how dangerous it was.

And like all the Soviet leaders, Brezhnev and all those people had seen all sorts of people be butchered.

So they were cautious in a way I don't think Vladimir Putin is.

No.

With India and Pakistan, it was so intense because of partition of so many people who died.

And it was recent, right?

47.

And so you wouldn't expect that, those animosities to die down.

And also their new states trying to establish their legitimacy.

So that was particularly difficult.

I don't know that most countries in the world necessarily want to kill all of their neighbors.

And then you can look at things forever.