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Scott Alexander

๐Ÿ‘ค Speaker
4620 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

Astral Codex Ten Podcast
"All Lawful Use": Much More Than You Wanted To Know

To learn more about the details, let's look at the law.

Astral Codex Ten Podcast
"All Lawful Use": Much More Than You Wanted To Know

Mass domestic surveillance.

Astral Codex Ten Podcast
"All Lawful Use": Much More Than You Wanted To Know

More than you wanted to know.

Astral Codex Ten Podcast
"All Lawful Use": Much More Than You Wanted To Know

Mass and targeted surveillance of foreigners in their foreign countries is legal.

Astral Codex Ten Podcast
"All Lawful Use": Much More Than You Wanted To Know

Broadly, the courts have declined to grant standing to allow court cases to test the executive branch's position that the president has inherent powers derived from his constitutional role to authorize foreign intelligence and counterintelligence surveillance, which de facto has allowed this position to become the standard executive branch argument for lawfulness.

Astral Codex Ten Podcast
"All Lawful Use": Much More Than You Wanted To Know

Targeted surveillance of Americans domestically is legal for domestic law enforcement purposes and, in narrow and usually time-limited cases, or for intelligence and counterterrorism.

Astral Codex Ten Podcast
"All Lawful Use": Much More Than You Wanted To Know

The surveilling agency must get the permission of a court first.

Astral Codex Ten Podcast
"All Lawful Use": Much More Than You Wanted To Know

Normal courts for law enforcement, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA, court for intelligence.

Astral Codex Ten Podcast
"All Lawful Use": Much More Than You Wanted To Know

This latter category includes things like wiretapping Americans suspected of spying for Russia.

Astral Codex Ten Podcast
"All Lawful Use": Much More Than You Wanted To Know

Mass domestic surveillance of Americans, American companies, and US permanent residents, or for that matter, generally their counterparts in other Five Eyes partners, UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, is more complicated.

Astral Codex Ten Podcast
"All Lawful Use": Much More Than You Wanted To Know

The current law is, roughly, that it's illegal to seek this kind of data, but legal to, quote, incidentally obtain it.

Astral Codex Ten Podcast
"All Lawful Use": Much More Than You Wanted To Know

So, for example, if the US was looking for Al-Qaeda communications, it might tap a major undersea cable, and if tapping that cable happened to incidentally give it data on millions of Americans, it could keep that data.

Astral Codex Ten Podcast
"All Lawful Use": Much More Than You Wanted To Know

But after incidentally obtaining, in quotes, the data, it may only query the resulting database in a targeted way.

Astral Codex Ten Podcast
"All Lawful Use": Much More Than You Wanted To Know

So the government might take its trove of citizen data that it incidentally collected looking for Al-Qaeda and search for a specific citizen's history if it thinks, for example, that this citizen might be a spy.

Astral Codex Ten Podcast
"All Lawful Use": Much More Than You Wanted To Know

The government reserves the term mass domestic surveillance for the thing they don't do, querying their databases en masse, preferring terms like gathering for what they do do, creating the databases en masse.

Astral Codex Ten Podcast
"All Lawful Use": Much More Than You Wanted To Know

They also reserve the term collecting for the querying process, so that when asked, does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans, they

Astral Codex Ten Podcast
"All Lawful Use": Much More Than You Wanted To Know

A director of national intelligence said no under oath, even though by the ordinary meaning of this question it absolutely does.

Astral Codex Ten Podcast
"All Lawful Use": Much More Than You Wanted To Know

It's worth noting that the NSA is a Department of War agency.

Astral Codex Ten Podcast
"All Lawful Use": Much More Than You Wanted To Know

Footnote, OpenAI's head of national security partnerships has made a few unclear tweets, perhaps implying that NSA might be excluded from their contract.

Astral Codex Ten Podcast
"All Lawful Use": Much More Than You Wanted To Know

However, as of this writing, they have not clearly confirmed this, have made some other statements that all of DOW, which includes NSA, is in scope of their contract, and have not made any comment on other DOW intelligence agencies.