Scott Detrow

Question for both of you. Trump really seems to be in a hurry here to get ceasefire negotiations started. What are the various parties? We're talking Trump in America, Ukraine, and Russia. What do they want from these talks? Greg, let me start with you.

Question for both of you. Trump really seems to be in a hurry here to get ceasefire negotiations started. What are the various parties? We're talking Trump in America, Ukraine, and Russia. What do they want from these talks? Greg, let me start with you.

That is NPR's Joanna Kakissis in Kiev, as well as NPR's Greg Myrie talking to us from Washington. Thanks to both of you.

That is NPR's Joanna Kakissis in Kiev, as well as NPR's Greg Myrie talking to us from Washington. Thanks to both of you.

That is NPR's Joanna Kakissis in Kiev, as well as NPR's Greg Myrie talking to us from Washington. Thanks to both of you.

Thanks, Scott. This episode was produced by Mark Rivers and Brianna Scott. It was edited by Jeanette Woods, Tara Neal, Patrick Jaron-Watanon, and Nadia Lancey. Our executive producer is Sammy Yannigan. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Scott Detrow.

Thanks, Scott. This episode was produced by Mark Rivers and Brianna Scott. It was edited by Jeanette Woods, Tara Neal, Patrick Jaron-Watanon, and Nadia Lancey. Our executive producer is Sammy Yannigan. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Scott Detrow.

Thanks, Scott. This episode was produced by Mark Rivers and Brianna Scott. It was edited by Jeanette Woods, Tara Neal, Patrick Jaron-Watanon, and Nadia Lancey. Our executive producer is Sammy Yannigan. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Scott Detrow.

M. Gessen knows what it feels like when a democracy starts to look like something else. They lived in Russia in the aughts in early 2010s, which was a period of time when Vladimir Putin steadily cracked down on activists, journalists, and opposition leaders. And one of the particularities of Russia, according to Gessen, is that before things became threatening, they often just seemed ridiculous.

M. Gessen knows what it feels like when a democracy starts to look like something else. They lived in Russia in the aughts in early 2010s, which was a period of time when Vladimir Putin steadily cracked down on activists, journalists, and opposition leaders. And one of the particularities of Russia, according to Gessen, is that before things became threatening, they often just seemed ridiculous.

M. Gessen knows what it feels like when a democracy starts to look like something else. They lived in Russia in the aughts in early 2010s, which was a period of time when Vladimir Putin steadily cracked down on activists, journalists, and opposition leaders. And one of the particularities of Russia, according to Gessen, is that before things became threatening, they often just seemed ridiculous.

Guessing as trans and non-binary. But they say they failed to take Putin's words seriously at first.

Guessing as trans and non-binary. But they say they failed to take Putin's words seriously at first.

Guessing as trans and non-binary. But they say they failed to take Putin's words seriously at first.

Gessen left Russia in 2013. They're in the U.S. now, a columnist for The New York Times. In a recent op-ed, they argued that the phenomenon, outlandish ideas taken seriously, It feels a lot like what has happened in the first month of the Trump administration.

Gessen left Russia in 2013. They're in the U.S. now, a columnist for The New York Times. In a recent op-ed, they argued that the phenomenon, outlandish ideas taken seriously, It feels a lot like what has happened in the first month of the Trump administration.

Gessen left Russia in 2013. They're in the U.S. now, a columnist for The New York Times. In a recent op-ed, they argued that the phenomenon, outlandish ideas taken seriously, It feels a lot like what has happened in the first month of the Trump administration.

Like that press conference where President Trump argued that diversity policies were behind that plane crash at the Washington airport.

Like that press conference where President Trump argued that diversity policies were behind that plane crash at the Washington airport.

Like that press conference where President Trump argued that diversity policies were behind that plane crash at the Washington airport.