Scott Detrow

Thanks, Scott. This episode was produced by Mark Rivers and Brianna Scott. It was edited by Jeanette Woods, Tara Neal, Patrick Jaron-Watanon, and Nadia Lancey. Our executive producer is Sammy Yannigan. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Scott Detrow.

Thanks, Scott. This episode was produced by Mark Rivers and Brianna Scott. It was edited by Jeanette Woods, Tara Neal, Patrick Jaron-Watanon, and Nadia Lancey. Our executive producer is Sammy Yannigan. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Scott Detrow.

M. Gessen knows what it feels like when a democracy starts to look like something else. They lived in Russia in the aughts in early 2010s, which was a period of time when Vladimir Putin steadily cracked down on activists, journalists, and opposition leaders. And one of the particularities of Russia, according to Gessen, is that before things became threatening, they often just seemed ridiculous.

M. Gessen knows what it feels like when a democracy starts to look like something else. They lived in Russia in the aughts in early 2010s, which was a period of time when Vladimir Putin steadily cracked down on activists, journalists, and opposition leaders. And one of the particularities of Russia, according to Gessen, is that before things became threatening, they often just seemed ridiculous.

M. Gessen knows what it feels like when a democracy starts to look like something else. They lived in Russia in the aughts in early 2010s, which was a period of time when Vladimir Putin steadily cracked down on activists, journalists, and opposition leaders. And one of the particularities of Russia, according to Gessen, is that before things became threatening, they often just seemed ridiculous.

Guessing as trans and non-binary. But they say they failed to take Putin's words seriously at first.

Guessing as trans and non-binary. But they say they failed to take Putin's words seriously at first.

Guessing as trans and non-binary. But they say they failed to take Putin's words seriously at first.

Gessen left Russia in 2013. They're in the U.S. now, a columnist for The New York Times. In a recent op-ed, they argued that the phenomenon, outlandish ideas taken seriously, It feels a lot like what has happened in the first month of the Trump administration.

Gessen left Russia in 2013. They're in the U.S. now, a columnist for The New York Times. In a recent op-ed, they argued that the phenomenon, outlandish ideas taken seriously, It feels a lot like what has happened in the first month of the Trump administration.

Gessen left Russia in 2013. They're in the U.S. now, a columnist for The New York Times. In a recent op-ed, they argued that the phenomenon, outlandish ideas taken seriously, It feels a lot like what has happened in the first month of the Trump administration.

Like that press conference where President Trump argued that diversity policies were behind that plane crash at the Washington airport.

Like that press conference where President Trump argued that diversity policies were behind that plane crash at the Washington airport.

Like that press conference where President Trump argued that diversity policies were behind that plane crash at the Washington airport.

Trump has also repeatedly raised the idea that the U.S. will make Canada its 51st state.

Trump has also repeatedly raised the idea that the U.S. will make Canada its 51st state.

Trump has also repeatedly raised the idea that the U.S. will make Canada its 51st state.

And then there's that proposal for the U.S. to, quote, own the Gaza Strip, permanently relocate the Palestinians who live there and redevelop it.

And then there's that proposal for the U.S. to, quote, own the Gaza Strip, permanently relocate the Palestinians who live there and redevelop it.

And then there's that proposal for the U.S. to, quote, own the Gaza Strip, permanently relocate the Palestinians who live there and redevelop it.