Seamus (Shay)

And because there's a familiarity aspect to it as well, like the ownership of certain areas, I don't know.

Yeah, they're not really clearly defined.

And then when you add third parties into the mix as well, I imagine from their side, if we're not exactly aligned on everything that we do and sometimes Stephen's asking for something and sometimes I'm asking for something, it would make that challenging as well.

But we know each other so intricately that I know –

I mean, Stephen loves calling me, I guess, like the sweeper that comes in behind and kind of tidies things up and, you know, ops guy is kind of my strength or what I like to say is my strength.

So I do do that.

But then you've got to let go of some of that stuff too to allow yourself to do the other parts of the business.

Yeah, but it's like one of those ones when like different all-black captains, they describe them as different leaders.

Like sporting analogy, Reuben Thorne was always like the quiet leader that leads by example, not in word.

So yes, I do.

And I think that like I've always had leadership roles even from high school.

So it sits naturally.

But I would probably describe myself as a lead by example rather than a lead by example.

shouting from the rooftops or being really, like I've always wanted, the way I have led when I have been a leader of small teams is to get people alongside so that you're all kind of pulling in the same direction and trying to explain the reasons why we do things versus do this.

Probably not.

Okay.

And I think it's harder for me, and I'm thinking about this as I say it, to do that when it's a narrower group of people.

The best example I have of that leading by a long side is I think I had like eight direct reports for a FIFA tournament that we had down here in Hamilton.

And

I was across all the things that needed to be done, but I very much trusted the people that were in those roles to do them and was alongside rather than trying to be on top and directing them how to do it.