Sean Carroll

And when you say communitarianism in this sense, I remember a cover story in the New Republic when I was in undergraduate school on how communitarianism is the next big thing for liberals, for Democrats, I should say.

Uh, but, but so the idea here would be, you know, we can't be the, these liberal autonomous individuals.

We have to actually have a community with more or less shared ways of looking at the world.

It's always a question of where you divide up the lines between the

Yes.

Well, so what about names like Curtis Yarvin and Peter Thiel and people we hear in the news?

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

Anti-liberal.

Yeah.

It's a difficult... Once again, the whole problem, the...

predicament of being a liberal is drawing lines between different groups, different rights, whatever.

And one of the lines you have to draw is there's people who are influential, but sort of not academically very serious.

And when do you engage with them versus when do you ignore them?

And these people are definitely on the ascendant.

There's a lot of, interestingly, the relationship between Catholicism and a lot of this post-liberal tradition, right?

Like a weird number of the leading voices are Catholic, sometimes very, very

you know, explicitly Catholic, like, you know, we should have a Catholic society.

And does most of like the sentiment in the sort of post-liberal side come from – is it a practical thing?

Like you think that power would be better exercised if it was more centralized or is it more sort of a fear of other people making choices you don't want them to make?