Sean Ellis

And there's a lot to learn from Pat.

He's he's awesome.

Uh, I mean, it's, it's, it's in the price of the ticket.

So I, I, I wouldn't make my company pay for the, for the book.

to just give away, but if they're paying, if they're paying $300 for a course and the book costs 20 bucks, then, then they're getting the book and the course for the $300.

It's a, it's a good deal.

And our conference is a thousand dollars.

We're bundling a $20 book with a thousand dollar ticket.

Now the company's not paying for it.

The person's actually buying both the book and the course.

And we're just dividing the, you know, the, the, the two pieces or the book and the conference.

I think a lot like Ryan Holiday's book was awesome to bring attention to growth hacking and to get people talking about it and thinking about it.

But there hasn't really been that guidebook for what do you do as a team and especially for bigger companies that want to replicate what Facebook has done and what Uber has done and some of these.

Some of these companies that have taken teams across that full customer journey and are running optimization across that full journey and working all of the levers of growth and the testing process, that stuff is hard.

Marketing as just an acquisition channel,

That's not that hard, but you actually need cultural change, cross-functional coordination and collaboration.

And so being able to have a guidebook that shows a company how to latch onto those things and then ultimately guidance around how to work each of those levers effectively.

So we've got the method building the growth team,

what what you need foundationally to be able to drive growth and then a lot of stuff on just the tactical of how how to manage different areas of the funnel for growth but uh it's super powerful but i think people people need the help and that's that's what the book does and that's what most of the components of my business do and last difference i want you to point out if you're the young hot shot in growth hacking space you could call jeffrey moore of crossing the chasm the kind of the grandfather a lot of that book is hugely popular what's the main difference between the two

I think crossing the chasm is really a, an observation on how it is, you know, that you, you need these early adopters and then you need to get it to mainstream and there's different motivations and,