Sean Illing

Yeah, we go through this, sort of the book is kind of moving through history, lurching from one revolution in media to another. And we start in Athens and Rome, both societies that were formed in large part by speech and rhetoric, but also upended by them.

Yeah, we go through this, sort of the book is kind of moving through history, lurching from one revolution in media to another. And we start in Athens and Rome, both societies that were formed in large part by speech and rhetoric, but also upended by them.

There's a printing press where that gives us the birth of newspapers and books and helps give us the Enlightenment, but it also unleashes a devastating religious war that devours the continent. In the 19th century, we get the Telegraph and the Penny Press, and that's really good for spreading liberal democratic norms, but it was also a really important platform for nativist and nationalism.

There's a printing press where that gives us the birth of newspapers and books and helps give us the Enlightenment, but it also unleashes a devastating religious war that devours the continent. In the 19th century, we get the Telegraph and the Penny Press, and that's really good for spreading liberal democratic norms, but it was also a really important platform for nativist and nationalism.

get fascism in the 20th century and fascism was not possible without mass media like film and radio those are indispensable vessels for fascist propaganda and then of course we get television and now the internet later and the thing again about all those revolutions is not that the technologies are good or bad. It's just that they're disruptive in very unpredictable ways.

get fascism in the 20th century and fascism was not possible without mass media like film and radio those are indispensable vessels for fascist propaganda and then of course we get television and now the internet later and the thing again about all those revolutions is not that the technologies are good or bad. It's just that they're disruptive in very unpredictable ways.

Sometimes you get the Arab Spring and sometimes you get Pizzagate. But they change the way a society thinks and orients itself. It changes the way a society relates to each other and to the world. And that has far-reaching complications. It changes us. And by extension, it has to change our politics, I mean, how could it not?

Sometimes you get the Arab Spring and sometimes you get Pizzagate. But they change the way a society thinks and orients itself. It changes the way a society relates to each other and to the world. And that has far-reaching complications. It changes us. And by extension, it has to change our politics, I mean, how could it not?

Well, Twitter has been, I think, bad for me personally. I mean, I've joked that I'm the worst version of myself on Twitter, but the thing about Twitter is and I'm very curious what you think about this, is that to be on there is to give yourself over to the incentives driving it. Attention, virality, the impulse to perform. And I think that's bad. It blinkers our intuitions.

Well, Twitter has been, I think, bad for me personally. I mean, I've joked that I'm the worst version of myself on Twitter, but the thing about Twitter is and I'm very curious what you think about this, is that to be on there is to give yourself over to the incentives driving it. Attention, virality, the impulse to perform. And I think that's bad. It blinkers our intuitions.

It creates anxieties and pressures that bleed into our work, certainly mine. And for individual writers, it's...

It creates anxieties and pressures that bleed into our work, certainly mine. And for individual writers, it's...

kind of become a platform for just personal brand promotion and that carries its own kinds of perverse incentives i mean i don't know maybe that's too dark you know mccluhan had this phrase a global village he coined which is sounds kind of techno utopian like he was you know very excited about this future of the internet where we would all be

kind of become a platform for just personal brand promotion and that carries its own kinds of perverse incentives i mean i don't know maybe that's too dark you know mccluhan had this phrase a global village he coined which is sounds kind of techno utopian like he was you know very excited about this future of the internet where we would all be

together but like his point was actually the opposite of that no it would be the size of the world but the psychological dynamics would be like a little tiny town where like everybody's all up in everyone else's business everyone's always looking over everyone's shoulders but there's all these social pressures and i feel those pretty intensely

together but like his point was actually the opposite of that no it would be the size of the world but the psychological dynamics would be like a little tiny town where like everybody's all up in everyone else's business everyone's always looking over everyone's shoulders but there's all these social pressures and i feel those pretty intensely

And the more I step away from that and just do stuff like podcasting, which is kind of removed from Twitter and some of that immediate feedback, it just feels liberating. I mean, it just feels more satisfying. I don't know. Is that your experience?

And the more I step away from that and just do stuff like podcasting, which is kind of removed from Twitter and some of that immediate feedback, it just feels liberating. I mean, it just feels more satisfying. I don't know. Is that your experience?

Yeah, you know, we probably overstate the broader impact of Twitter. I think like 80% of the country is even on there. But I think it has been very toxic for our business, for journalism. And to the extent that Twitter impacts how journalists think and what they cover,

Yeah, you know, we probably overstate the broader impact of Twitter. I think like 80% of the country is even on there. But I think it has been very toxic for our business, for journalism. And to the extent that Twitter impacts how journalists think and what they cover,