Sean Mullaney

And I've seen my Jets score too many touchdowns to not be pretty knowledgeable about this subject.

And so I think what happens is if you use these traditional retirement accounts to build up retirement savings, maybe build up some taxable brokerage accounts, maybe build up backdoor Roth IRAs because you deducted, you saved money, you invested it during your working years.

all right, maybe at the end of the game, we have some RMDs that go out at the 32% when we're already affluent and we don't have the energy to be spending that money anyway, or maybe we're in long-term care, a whole other conversation.

A lot of times, a lot of these long-term care expenses can be subject to, it could be medical deductions, and then we can essentially deduct away most of our taxable income.

So it's actually an efficient use for a traditional IRA, not a desired use, but an

efficient use.

So yeah, that's sort of my approach when I think about this.

Not that Roth conversions can't play a good role, can't be beneficial, but rarely are the Roth conversions needed.

Robert, thanks so much for having me.