Seth Lieberman

They didn't invent email, but what they helped build is a platform to make it easier for marketers to build and coordinate and run campaigns.

And then it became something big, right?

Same with video.

Same with what David Cancel, if you know David over at Drift, is trying to do with chats and bots and that kind of stuff.

And we're trying to do that for Interactive.

And so I think we as a company will always have a higher churn rate on the customer count over the next five years than an established vertical, right?

A lot of the CRM, marketing automation, analytics, those guys, their churn rates should be much lower because they're known quantities.

If you're going to bring in Domo or you're going to bring in Sitecore,

You're going to keep it for a long time, right?

We're pretty much about 100% MRR retention, right?

What about logo?

Logo is less.

I don't know my exact logo churn, to be honest, because part of the reason is, and this is one of the things we do at the end of every quarter and end of every year, we look back at all the churn and we look at why did you churn?

And so part of when we think about our ideal customer profile, we've found customers under 50 million, very high churn rates.

Right.

Right.

Yeah.

Right.

Right.

So we look at, we think about churn in terms of the customer, um, you know, and, and people, they may not be ready to try something new at the scale that we want them to try that.