Shamita Basu

He is someone who has expressed a lot of distrust toward a lot of these institutions, some of which he now leads.

We're already talking about solutions in a way, but you do lay out some of the solutions that you think of in the book that would make it less likely, at least for a company like J&J, to behave the way that it has.

Could you lay out some of those solutions?

Gardner, thank you so much for your time.

Thank you for this investigation.

It was really a pleasure to have you on to talk about this.

You can find No More Tears, The Dark Secrets of Johnson & Johnson by Gardner Harris on Apple Books.

We'll include a link to it on our show notes page.

And every weekend, you can find new episodes of Apple News in Conversation in the Apple News app.

Just tap on the audio tab.

That's the little headphones at the bottom to find it.

This is In Conversation from Apple News.

I'm Shamita Basu.

Today, the lasting impact of the Los Angeles fires.

On January 7th of 2025, Los Angeles County experienced the most destructive series of fires it had ever seen.

That's Jacob Soboroff, a senior reporter at MSNOW in Los Angeles.

He was working that day at the NBC studio when the fires broke out.

Jacob grew up in the Palisades, and when he heard that the neighborhood was ablaze, he set out to cover the fires there.

Jacob spent the next several days on the ground reporting live on the Palisades Fire and the Eaton Fire.

Together, they burned for over three weeks and decimated over 16,000 homes and buildings, including the home where Jacob grew up.