Simon Devlin
Appearances
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
You had one of these keeps, you had access to a private lounge behind the retail store, which has swipe cards and like nondescript doors, you know, it was kind of get smarty and it's how you get through to the next thing and the next thing and the next thing. And that became our private club. And so 2010 I had this private club, but we had one level, you know, and I hadn't really worked out.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
No, I mean our, our initial membership was like $550 a year. Right. We hadn't really worked out that whole thing. And, uh, And then learning for the first time about ascension and, you know, ascension equals retention and, you know, and the different ladders and, you know, that sort of thing. And then going, oh, okay. So I need to stop making this about the keep, about the product.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And now I need to make this about an offer, you know, all the different things that we actually add into that offer stack and call it a membership rather than just your locker, right? Your locker.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
So you'd sell them the cigars and then they would place it in the locker. The store, when you come hang out with those. Absolutely. And when you come out and they could put a bottle of whiskey in there or they could put, you know, some would have their locker absolutely full of cigars.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And then others would come in and their locker would be empty and they would just buy a cigar on consumption as well. But they had that... you know, and, and, you know, it gave us different things to sell as part of the membership and as part of the, because I have an event center that we're launching and it's like a library museum thing.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Yeah. Or we could do a JV and I could sell cigars and they could put some cigars in there.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Yeah, so I started my business back in 1997, importing, wholesaling, and distributing cigars. So I have retail stores in Australia and a private club as well. Like a cigar club? A cigar club, yeah. So it's a physical location where people pay an annual membership fee to be a member. It's a great, great community. And we also distribute cigars. for some of the biggest brands in the world.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Yeah. And, um, and we started adding in different products to our store as well. It went from being a cigar shop to a men's luxury gift store where we were selling writing instruments and beautiful writing instruments and, um, We were selling, you know, luggage and wallets and, you know, great things like that.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
So it really evolved into being what I call a big boys toy store but still always had a heavy focus on the cigars. But the beauty of cigars is actually the toys that go along with it. You know, the different cutters and lighters and humidors and they're just beautiful accessories as well. So we started selling all of those products as well and then just kept adding to the membership.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And realizing that we could keep adding membership levels and then our members would want to ascend. Now, because we did the experience and the engagement part so well... They just love hanging out there, and it's become quite an incredible community. We're just an amazing bunch, predominantly men, though women are incredibly welcome as members, and we do have some fantastic ladies as members.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
It tends to be that it's the men that generally enjoy the cigars more just by their nature. But, yeah, we've got an amazing, amazing group of members there. So what do the levels look like? What do you charge these levels? What are people getting at these levels? Yeah, so it's evolved over time. So first of all, there's a joining fee. So we charge a joining fee.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
So the joining fee is currently $995. and then there's the different levels. So we've actually changed it recently. So we used to have a bronze level of membership, but we've done away with that. And we actually, the opening level of membership is a gold level of membership. And with that, they get their private cigar keep.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
They actually get a 10% discount on everything in the, in the store as well. And they also, we added things into the stack, which are from outside vendors, which is a really, really good thing. So if you go to this restaurant, you get, you know, an entree, you know, if you go here, you get that, or you get access to a private dining room or you get access to different
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
things as well, which we found was really, really valuable to add in, uh, to the stack as well. Uh, so that's gold. They pay around about $1,600 a year. Uh, then we have our platinum. Um, so they get everything obviously that's in gold. Um, plus they actually get a whiskey keep. So actually, so the cigar keeps this to walk in humidor rooms with, uh,
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
private cigar keeps so there's now 500 private cigar keeps we started out with you know um uh 60 um and the platinum members actually get a whiskey keep as well which is actually inside the lounge so that is a keep which actually has like a um like a mesh to the front of it and it's lit up and so you can see what bottles they can all see what bottles
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
they have in their in their keep and they can keep whiskey in there or wine or or soft drink whatever you know we uh we obviously don't mind on that um but they also get four platinum member lunches a year which are special lunches that we actually host in the lounge itself which And they're just fantastic. They're some of my favorite events. Just a great bunch of guys.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
We now have about 100 platinum members. But it started out as a very, very small group. And they are fantastic days where we have three cigars and we have a huge amount of food, a lot of barbecue, American-style barbecue stuff as well. Got a great guy, Barbecue Events Australia. They look after us. Amazing. And... a little bit of wine, a little bit of whiskey as well.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And, of course, now we've made it kind of a sales event where we have a particular raffle item, which will be something really, really special, hard to get or you can't get. If you purchase a certain amount of boxes of cigars on the day, you can actually go into the drawer for that as well. And you get a platinum member's jacket, which is a smoking jacket, which is really cool.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And, of course, you get a platinum member's pin and, you know, We follow the formula, the platinum members pin and platinum members card as well. All those things which are really, really important. And then we have platinum plus, which is, sorry, platinum doesn't have the jacket. Platinum plus has the jacket.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And we do retail online as well. So I have a different separate business, which is I started a couple of years ago to try to do something a little bit different with a different character to sell cigars online. And yeah, it's been an incredible journey. It was 2010 that I actually... first found Dan Kennedy and started learning about... So then Dan was Kennedy. When did the cigar business start?
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Again, different card, a couple of other different events as well, which are even more exclusive because there's only a 30 or 40 of those. And finally, we have our membership that we launched this year, which actually – it actually came to me in the mastermind meeting with Dan. And – It was like I was telling him about all the memberships and all the rest of it, and he's asking questions.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
I'm like, oh, yeah, there's a waiting list for platinum, waiting list for platinum plus. And he goes, you know what that means, right? And I go, yeah. And he goes, your membership's too cheap. You need another level. So we just created a Devlin's Black. And that's $10,000 a year. And we wanted to make that really extra special. So we didn't actually market that.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
I literally came to – I hand-selected the people that I wanted in that very, very small group of 15. And I went and invited them individually. And they get a beautiful Devlin's Black card, which is a metal card.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
they get access to things that other people don't get access to for example Teresa my partner and I we go to a or get invited every year to a special cigar dinner which is in LA which is hosted by Joe Mantegna the actor and Andy Garcia and for their foundation and it's a bit of a who's who of Hollywood Arnie was there last year like it's a it's a pretty special event it's a cigar thing and
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
we've been lucky enough to get invited and we're like, okay, so if you're a Devlin's Black member, you are going to get a golden ticket to this event. You get to get your way from Australia and your accommodation and all the rest of it, but you get to come with us.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And we took our first group in early September and they just had the most incredible time as well, which just cements that whole relationship as well. Yeah.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Everyone you invited? Yeah, there were two guys that because of their circumstances, they couldn't. And I know they really, really wanted it, but it was because of their personal circumstances at the time. You're ruining my close rate. Come on, guys. Yeah, yeah. And like the first, you know, the first five, I was like, no one's going to say no. I am. And I'm, I'm batting a hundred percent.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
I'm the greatest ever. You know, and we, we did it. The guys will listen to this podcast and be like, yeah, you I knew what you were doing. But we had these Devlin's Black cards made and I put individual numbers on them. But I actually, before I went and sat down with these people, I had their name written already engraved on the card. Right.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And so, you know, I'm going through my, uh, perfect webinar pinch and, uh, um, and then I, I, and you get this card and I hand it over and they turn it over and their names on it as well. And look, the guys, the guys were amazing. They just really appreciated being invited to it as well.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And, you know, some guys were like almost to tears, you know, like, wow, you've included me in this, which was, which was really, really cool. Cause I, The truth is they're actually my buddies as well, you know, so it's yeah, but it's great. If you can, if you can offer that next level and I'm sure you have it with your Atlas group and your other groups as well.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Let me take your coat back. Well, you store it at Devlin's. Oh, gotcha. That's going to be a huge pain to disconnect knowing like, oh man, this is my... And that's what you have to do, right? It's the pain to disconnect. It's like with the Devlin's Black, everyone has their own number. So my number is 000. And then there's 001, 002, 003.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
I mean, we've never numbered anything like that memberships before. And so, and now what we did is we built a whole new set of whiskey keeps. Teresa actually organized it and they were only actually installed this week. And they're three times the size of the other whiskey keeps and they're a different color and they're next to each other.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And then there's a plaque on there and everything that we do with the Devlin's Black is all their number. So it's 0002, you know, and then their surname as well. So the pain of disconnect is do I want to give up 007 or 008 or, you know, all of that as well.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
So in fact, even at our events, so we actually did something with the Devlin's Black quite special in that we actually did, instead of just doing the events at Devlin's, we actually have a private dinner at my house or at our house, I should say. And...
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
their their teresa had organized that you know they have a steak knife which has got their number and name on it there's a riddle black tasting glass which is a completely blind tasting glass so the glass is completely black and it's got their name and their their number on it and you know there's a napkin embroidered with their name and their number on it so just making things ultra special as well
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
13 years later. 13 years. Interesting. Okay.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
It was actually a guy that I met. It was actually a basketballer, an Australian basketballer who actually played for the Australian team. His name, Damien. And I met him. We had lunch and we had these amazing conversations and we had sort of similar philosophies. And he said, you need to meet a mentor of mine. He lives on the east coast of Australia, and you're going to absolutely love him.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Yeah, and I honestly believe there's not a single business in the world that you can't add a membership to. So, Teresa and I have just acquired a venue, which is going to be a great new hospitality venue, which is not far from Devlin's as well. And there's great, obviously, synergies there.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
It's actually, part of it is actually the worst business in the world, which is the restaurant business, right? 100%, the worst business in the world. But if you do it differently and add a membership into that, then that changes the numbers completely. And so one of the things actually that I'm – this is my this week thing is getting my offer stack right.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
um maybe you can workshop that with me so so basically the the first part to the membership at this venue so the venue is called the embassy it's it's going to be opening in february and it um it has a restaurant at the front it also has a bar um there's actually three different levels to it and it has a rooftop uh as well which be a whiskey and cigar lounge which is awesome
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And it has some private cellars down underneath, which we're calling the symposiums, which are private dining rooms where you're actually in a wine cellar as well. And so I'm looking for what are all the different parts that I can put as part of an offer stack as well. So we'll do like a wine club symposium.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
uh, to start with as well, where people that love their wine, you know, they'll open the menu. There'll be two different prices on there as well. You know, there'll be the member price, the wine club member price, and then there'll be the normal price. Right. And there'll be quite a difference in, in those prices. So they're like, Oh, Oh, how do I get that? Right?
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Oh, you need to be a member of the wine club. You know, we're about to do a founding membership for the embassy where it'll be for probably two or three years and I'm in the middle of creating that stack. I'm trying to work out what to put in and what to leave out, you know. But that just changes the business of the restaurant business, you know, because –
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
going back to our model of experience, return path and offer, is we do experience incredibly well. So only people that have the service gene will work in this venue. So they will be automatically engaging with people. But how do we get them to consistently come back? And that is you must have that systemized return path. And that systemized return path must include a membership.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
I think with retail and hospitality, I've got a book coming out. Can I plug it? Yeah, let's go for it. Okay, so that framework, the Experience, Return, Path and Offer, the first book is actually on retail and it's called The Two-Legged Stool, Why Your Retail Business is Destined to Fail.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And it's because so many businesses, if they're just concentrating on the offer, which a lot of businesses do, they'll fail in the first 12 to 18 months, right? Because if they don't have the experience and engagement- People come and they'll come back. Exactly, right? Like, ah, what's this? You know, great. You know, they concentrate on the offer. We sell cigars at this price.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
This is what our store looks like. It's beautifully merchandised all around. That's the offer, right? Yeah. The experience is the rocket fuel that makes people truly engaged, but it's the return path that gives you the rivers of gold. You know, that is the – yeah, that's the whole thing. So the two-legged stool is you've probably been to a restaurant before. You had incredible experience.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
You know, the food was amazing. Maybe the wine list was amazing. You know, the staff were fantastic. On the way out, you said, you know, thank you so much. And the maitre d' of the owner said, yeah, please come again. Mm-hmm. And like, you've never come back. Two years later, like, let's go back to that place.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And his name was Gary Dean Atkins. And so I go to the other side of the country one time. I meet this guy, and I'm like, wow, this guy's amazing. He's got similar sort of philosophies. Anyway, he gives me a book, which was Psycho-Cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz. One of the greatest. Dan Kenny. And that, of course, blew my mind.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And then what happens is you hear in the newspaper, which is happening a lot in Australia at the moment, I'm sure it is in the United States, much love restaurant closing its doors. And that's after three years, four years, five years. And that's because the owner's been sitting on this two-legged stool and not wondering every morning whether – is it going to be a busy day?
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Is it going to be a busy week? Is it going to be a busy month? And business just continually goes up and down like that. But with different systemized return paths, with all kinds of different return paths, which include membership continuity, that completely changes. You can pay your rent –
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
It's my goal with the embassy that we actually are making the repayments on the building from our continuity program. So then that changes the whole dynamic.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
The co-author version with Dan. And then I was like, who's this guy? Who's this Dan Kennedy guy? And so then I searched him online and I found The Ultimate Sales Letter. And I read that book and then I was like, oh, wow. I'm going to sell a lot of cigars now. And I was like, up until that point in time, I thought, hey, I'm a pretty good sales guy.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
it's insane the revenue from that we never could have matched in bringing new people in the front door ever you know what i mean it's crazy and that's the and that is the true lifetime value right that that is the thing i actually um took our framework and wanted to know whether i could take it online so i'm i kind of the opposite of going back from off down yeah right so i was like okay
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
could I do experience and engagement? So I knew I could do return path and I knew I could do offer, but could I take the experience and engagement online and therefore get the same kind of jet fuel propulsion into my return path? Sorry, I keep hitting the mic. And so I decided to create a completely separate cigar business. So Devlin's is our business. And call it something completely different.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Create an attractive character out of thin air. A guy by the name of Joe Box was called cigarbox.com.au. And the attractive character is this guy called Joe Box. Is it somebody you know or is it like a cartoon? No, no, cartoon character. You know, he's really Aussie. G'day, mate. How are you? I'm Joe Box here. And so when we write copy, that's how we write it all, right?
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Like in g'day, everything's, yeah, how are you, mate? You know, it's kind of Crocodile Hunter meets, you know, Cigar Guy, right? Anyway, so we created this attractive character. And then the only, and cause you can't advertise. So you can't advertise cigars. Yeah. Cause it's anywhere. Just Australia in, in definitely in Australia because the tobacco product, right? So it's illegal to advertise.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
So we couldn't do, we couldn't drive traffic. And I, and I was not going to use my existing database to, right? So because I wanted to be a completely separate business at different price points as well, mainly focused on the East Coast of Australia. So the only thing that we could do was SEO and word of mouth. So we had to make sure that every person that came in stuck, right? So
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
the first time, first thing that I did was like, okay, how do we, how do we change that whole experiencing? Like you buy something online and there's no human interaction and stuff arrives and all the rest of it. So I created something that I call a lifetime value call. I initially called it a stick call, but, but basically what it is is it was a welcome call.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
So the first time you ordered from cigar box, you would actually get a phone call from a team member. And, and originally it was me being Joe box. And, um, And literally just welcomed them to the Cigar Box family. So welcome to the Cigar Box family. So it literally, I'd call you and you'd answer and I'd say, G'day, is that Russell? And you go, yeah. Okay, it's Simon Devlin here.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Um, but then that just, that just changed my world, just all the different pieces of it. And then I just started buying everything I could have him. It was GKIC days back then where it was also piecemeal and I was buying, you know, CDs and DVDs and just consuming it all. And I saw the entire bookshelf full of Dan Kennedy CDs and DVDs. So I was the same way.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Well, I wouldn't say Simon Devlin. I would say it's Joe here from Cigar Box. And just saw you placed your first order with us and wanted to give you a call and welcome you to the Cigar Box family. Now, it was not an add-to-cart call, which goes against the grain a little. That's plugging the experience part you're missing. Exactly.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And then we would just say to them, hey, just to let you know what happens, what's happening, we're packing your beautiful cigars today and we'd always make sure we ship same day. And we're going to send that out and you're going to get an email letting you know about all of that. And, you know, do you have any questions? And they'll be like, oh, wow, thank you so much for calling.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Like I've never got a call before when I've purchased something online. And often they'd have questions, and often they would do their own ad to cart, but it was completely different. And then I would say to them, whereabouts are you on your cigar journey? And they might say, oh, look, I'm just starting out.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And we'll say, do you want us to send you some fact sheets on carting and lighting or enjoying your cigar? I've been smoking cigars for a long time. We'd say, hey, do you want us to send you a fact sheet on pairing your beverages with cigars? And they'd go, oh, wow, that's amazing. And then they'd get a follow-up email straight away, and then they would actually go into a 11-email welcome sequence.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
as well and when they got their first order it have a handwritten note in there with uh with a little gift a cigar cutter as well Now, just that welcome call, people would write reviews before they even got the product, like off the charts. And these reviews, I was like, I don't know if I can use them. It looks like I wrote them myself.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And things like, I have never experienced service like this online before. This is old school service, that sort of thing. So then when we started making offers in our return path, like our weekly Ligador, The uptake on it is huge. All because they have a different interaction. And the other thing that happened is...
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
you don't get as many calls, people calling up saying, what's happening with this? What's happening? Because you've built a level of trust that they haven't felt before. So in fact, so much so that one of the other things that we do with that whole experience and engagement is sometimes they call up and they're like, hey, my parcel hasn't arrived. It was sent with Australia Post.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
I can see that you guys send it. I know it's not your fault, but is there anything you can do? And we were like, yeah, no worries, let us follow this up. And they might say, oh, I followed up with Australia Post and they said, if they haven't received it in two weeks, then, you know, call us back. And what we would do is we would offer to resend the entire package.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And generally it's like $300 or $400 worth of cigars. And they'd be like, oh, okay, you just resend the whole thing? And I'm like, yeah, we just resend the whole thing. And when the second package arrives... You let us know and we'll give you a postage to send it back to us. Now, there's a lot of trust there, right? You're trusting that people will send it back.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
The reason why they send it back is that first welcome call. Now, what actually happens is this. The second package always arrives the day after the other one. It's like they kind of push each other out of the system. And then we call them and we say, hey, you can send it back or we'll give you a 10% or 15% discount off the second package and you can keep it.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
So the other day I got a young guy working for me and I'm teaching him marketing. I'm giving him a marketing apprenticeship at the moment.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Now, 90% of the time they go, all right, I'll keep it. They'll keep it, right? Yeah. But that experience and engagement they have not experienced before and it completely changes the model. And we took that business from literally zero to now doing, you know, over a million dollars a year in a couple of years.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And now we're adding in the true continuity program, which is our new thing, which is a cigar of the month. So at this point that, that online, if there's no continuity, that's just a straight. Yeah. So we, so we have an offer that we send out every week, which is called the weekly Ligador, which is, so Ligador means master blender. Actually, most people, cigar people don't know that. Yeah.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
It was kind of a name I was looking for a name. Spanish for master blender. It's called Ligador, which is a seven or eight stick offer. And we will throw in a couple of other things with it as well. And it changes every week. And, you know, people, we just send that out and we go deep on the stories behind all the cigars as well.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Like not just going, this cigar is like this and it tastes like this. No, we do the storytelling, right? Yeah.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
um and that just changes everything so now we are now launching the continuity program which is called uh family of the leaf so joe joe's always talking about brother leaf you're a brother of the leaf or fellow brother of the leaf or sister of the leaf um so we're creating family of the leaf which is the which is the cigar box a month which you sign up for with three different levels and um and that's launching early next year as well so that's cool you're the price
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
and i was like oh i need one of the things wasn't in the whole i said that to him i'm like do you have a cd player and he's like uh cd like an eight track player right so i go online and buy a like a dvd player and i buy a stack of blank cds and i'm like i'm gonna burn it and then i can't work this out
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
points will be those three levels yeah so um so we we need to really finalize it um but i think it'll be 197 297 and 597 that's a monthly or quarterly monthly people have 597 a month in cigars do you know what cigars in australia are crazy expensive like because the tax is really really high like your average cigars you know 50 60 70 dollars really yeah yeah i had no idea yeah
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
So, yeah, you got to really love them. But mind you, the average wage in Australia is a lot higher than it is in the U.S. What's your margin on that? What should I say? Maybe not. I don't know. Yeah, it's reasonably healthy. Let's just say that.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Okay. Experience engagement. So we write it as a Venn diagram because they are overlapping circles. You know, what becomes part of your experience engagement becomes part of your return path, becomes part of your offer. And the bigger you make those circles, the closer they come in together and the faster they spin and throw off cash. You know, so it's experience, return path, and offer.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And once you start laying that framework over your business in terms of retail or hospitality, and in fact, a number of my friends who have other businesses, they're like, no, no, no, mate, this works in everything. But that's what I know. You will just be picking the diamonds out because you realize where you can tweak things. You know, oh, we actually do experience reasonably well
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
But now I know why that person is amazing and that person is not. So we need to find some more of those people. Or, okay, I have great experience and engagement. I have a good offer, but I don't know where my customers are coming from. So, okay, I need to put a membership in it. So that's the other thing too. I'm always saying to people, don't think subscription. Think membership.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
There's a difference. You know, you can subscribe to something and turn it on and off. But with a membership, the pain of disconnect is greater because you're actually got to be part of something. So we actually have something called the Lifetime Value Pyramid. So the idea is obviously the money is in the list, right? But it's actually the money is actually not in the list.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
It's in your relationship to the list, right? Experience and engagement is what changes that. So at the top, we have customer and client. So at the top, we have list, which is really cold. No one wants to say like, hey, Russell, he's on my list. Let me introduce him. Customer and client. Then we have herd. Then we have tribe. Then we have community.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And finally, we have the richest vein, which is what we call BFMs, which is business family members. So you're part of the ClickFunnels family. you're part of the magnetic marketing family. And it's where they not only feel like that, but they're treated like that as well. It's where they identify like that. I mean, your funnel hackers, they're your BFMs.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And they're the most hyper-responsive to your offer is where you could get them into BFMs. And it's the experience engagement circle that pushes them down that path.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Yeah, I said to a mate of mine, he had a purely online, actually a guy that I met, had a purely online business. And I asked him, and it was reasonably sizable, I said, how many people do you have in customer service? And he said, I have four. And I said, what do they do? And he's like, I mainly answer calls, what's happening with this? How does that feel? You know, all the rest of it.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And I said, oh, how quickly do you ship? And he's like, oh, we ship within two or three days. And I'm like, okay, take your two best customer service people, And just have them call every single person on their first order and do this lifetime value call, this welcome call. And then fire the other two people. Solve all your problems. Because you don't need them anymore.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Because you're not going to get the inbound. because they're like, oh, wow, like I already know what's happening. You know, plus I said, get all your people, put them into your warehouse and get to shipping same day. People think that Amazon win because of price. It's not. Amazon worked out and they actually got it from really the company that bought Zappos, but they worked out
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
They needed experience and engagement, but the best way for them to do that was to get the product to someone as quickly as possible and make a no questions returns policy. They were the two things that actually matter more than price. And, you know, that makes, so people don't need to compete on price all the time. They just need to compete on customer service and speed of delivery.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
That's so cool. That's it.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Yeah, so the book officially comes out in February. Um, it's, uh, if you go to simondevlin.com forward slash book, or you can actually go to the two legged stool book.com, um, either one, um, you can, uh, start, uh, ordering a pre-copy. And if they're down in Perth, they can order some cigars or come to the shop and, Absolutely. Upgrade to the top level of membership.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
If you make the little flight out of the 30 hours to get cigars, I promise you it'll be completely worth it. And if you're in Australia, and I'm sure there are so many ClickFunnels people in Australia as well. Yeah, we're in High Street, Subiaco, and the new venue opens up also in early February, which is called the Embassy, and that's on Rockabee Road. Very cool.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
I think the biggest thing is cigars are all about flavor and taste. So people think, and this has been a problem in Australia, and when I actually started the cigar business back in 1997, you couldn't buy cigars anywhere. It wasn't part of the culture, whereas it had been more part of the culture in the United States. People just saw it literally as a big cigarette.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Are you ever going to do the online business here in the States as well, or are you keeping it local to Australia because of the laws and regulations? Yeah, the laws and regulations. Actually, what I'm working to now in the States is why I'm coming here is really the coaching information business. I worked out that framework and I worked out how badly it is needed in retail and hospitality.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And I really came to the Renegade Millionaire Masterminds to work out how I was going to do that in Australia. And it was actually Dan and Darcy and Marty that actually said to me, hey, Don't do it in Australia. Come and do it here.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
So I'm partnering with some people here, Kim Walsh Phillips, and hopefully we're going to teach that framework here and find millions of people with service genes and give them another boost in life as well as we teach them what their superpower is and have another great business and have a lot of fun doing it, which I think is my calling.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
You come to America more often, so you're second home in Boise. Absolutely. My second time here and I love it.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Now, I've never smoked cigarettes in my life and never will, but cigars are actually about flavor and taste. You don't actually inhale a cigar. You actually just draw it in your mouth and you blow it out.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
But I think the true value of cigars and why so many people smoke them and successful people actually smoke them is people think it's a status symbol, but it's actually because it's the only time that really busy people stop smoking. Because it actually takes time to enjoy a cigar. Generally, we don't say smoke a cigar, we enjoy a cigar. There is a rhythm to the breathing almost.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
I often say it's like a form of meditation. And when you can share that with other people, yeah, it's a pretty amazing experience.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Yeah, it does. But you're not going deep into your lungs. Yeah. And so the thing is about nicotine is what makes it highly addictive in cigarettes is the other chemicals that they add into cigarettes to make the increase of the uptake of the nicotine into the bloodstream. So that was that movie with Russell Crowe, The Insiders, was all about is how they'd worked all that out.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
So I was thinking about this actually this morning. So I smoke cigars. I love cigars. I would have on average a couple of cigars a day, which is a lot of cigars. Most people might have one cigar a week kind of thing. I left home a week and a half ago. I haven't had a cigar, you know, like, and I hadn't even thought about it, you know?
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
So I, I really, really enjoy the experience, but I don't feel the need to want to have a cigar. So yeah, it's interesting. It's a very, very enjoyable pastime.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Yep. So I really, it started out as a, uh, well, it started out, uh, Initially, importing, wholesaling and distributing cigars. And I actually had a business partner at the time that I had in the early days. And I found that he wasn't my kind of guy and we didn't really know each other. Perhaps our values weren't quite aligned.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And we kind of split, and he took over the wholesale distribution at the time, and then I took over the retail side, which was in a tiny little cigar shop in a beautiful little alley called London Court in Perth. And... That shop is so small, I always joke that you have to go outside to change your mind, right? So it's this tiny little shop.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And then so really I started out that in 2002 as almost like a one-man band. And, you know, just learning, learning how to have team members, learning how to, you know, make sure that you've got the right cigars and teaching people and those sort of things. And that progressed. And eventually I put on some more team members. And I kind of worked out... Well, actually, I had a problem.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
So first of all, I put on some team members and their sales were nowhere near what my sales were. They were just – I couldn't understand.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Yeah, and I hired people that were passionate about cigars. So at first I thought, oh, is it technical knowledge? And then it was like, okay, no, it's not the technical knowledge. So what is it? And then – I started observing what it was about my own interaction that was different. And what I realized was I never actually talked about cigars with the customers, first of all.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
I actually talked about them and I got to know them. And then eventually we would get round to cigars. Like there was a different level of engagement. And by that time we'd kind of made friends, if you like. And, you know, that whole thing, people want to do business with people they know and like. So then I decided, oh, great, that's all I need to do.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
I need to teach my guys how to build rapport, right? And so I started to create this idea of an engagement funnel. So rather than a sales funnel, like how to truly engage with customers and clients when they came in. And I taught them this. But the sales, I got a bump, but I didn't get to where I definitely thought we should be. So I was a bit sneaky.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Actually, it was a tiny little shop, and I would hang out just around the corner from the shop and actually listen to their interactions to see actually what was actually happening. And the interesting part was is it just sounded really clunky. Like it sounded put on, like the way they were interacting was just, you know, natural. Yeah, it wasn't natural. That's not what they naturally did.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And therefore they weren't getting the benefit out of it. And I was like, okay, so I actually need to hire a different type of person. I actually need to hire someone who most naturally does that. Someone that was more similar to me. And that's where I started developing this idea of who that person was.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And eventually it evolved over a number of years where I realized that that person is actually someone we call that has the service gene. So someone that has not only the desire but the innate need to want to look after people. And that was quite a point where I turbocharged my business because then I had a system for finding the right people.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And then when I found them, I taught them how to fly with their most natural, what they do best. And so my business really started to expand fast because people were having incredible experience. They were, they were getting incredible engagement. It was actually, it started out in that little cigar shop. And on a Friday afternoon, people would come and they would smoke cigars, um,
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
inside the and you could smoke inside back then that you they'd smoke cigars inside the little shop and also in the london court alleyway as well and they'd bring a bottle of wine and and it became this huge thing until you know some fridays it would be 30 or 40 people kind of hanging out there because they were coming for that community and that engagement as well um and so so that was the where i really worked out that whole experience and engagement circle but
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
What I was kind of missing was how do I consistently get them to come back again and again? And it wasn't until 2010 when I discovered Dan Kennedy and Magnetic Marketing that the next piece of the puzzle really fell into place. And that was the return path. Yeah. That was having a system to get people to come back again and again.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
That whole number one reason why people stop doing business with you is they forget about you and you constantly sticking up your hand and saying, I'm here, I'm here, I'm here.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
Right. And I hadn't actually done that. The experience and engagement, that's the rocket fuel that can turbocharge the return path. Um, but that was the, that was the next step. So then I started thinking about how can I add different pieces to the puzzle? And, um, uh, and then that eventually evolved into, uh, into a membership.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
It actually started with private cigar keeps putting private cigar keeps in the next evolution of our store. Is that like a locker? Yeah. They put their own stuff in there? Yeah. Okay. And I'm like, oh, this is like a little real estate play here, right? Like a tiny little box. You can charge them an annual fee. So how did that work? How much would you charge people for that?
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
So look, I think originally when we originally opened, so that Subiaco store we opened in 2006, sorry, no, 2003. Okay. And I think we were maybe charging, uh, like five, $600 a year for the, for the keep. It was a, it was a small amount and it was us dipping our toes into what would people pay? You know, like I think often as business people and marketers, we always undervalue it. Right.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And, uh, we're testing, you know, how much people would actually pay, uh, for it as well. Um, Then I guess the next evolution was, so that was in 2003. In 2006, the smoking laws were changing. We built a joint venture with a private club in Western Australia, which was the oldest private club at the time, and we built a cigar lounge as a joint venture with them called Churchill's.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
They had a membership business. They were a private club. The smoking laws were changing, and we weren't going to be able to have it there anymore. We'd opened another store in Subiaco. So that was in 2003 that I was talking about before. And we worked out we needed another location and there was an opportunity across the road.
The Russell Brunson Show
From Cigars to Continuity: Simon Devlin’s Secrets to Building Customer Loyalty
And I thought, okay, maybe we build a private club at the back of the retail store. And we make it really, really discreet. And I, as often us marketers do, I sold it before I made it and sold these memberships. So I sold these founding memberships, which were based around the keeps. We had originally 60 odd keeps in there. And