Sonia or Simon

But even if we're both kind of resisting, not really wanting to talk about the topic, we do try to get it out and move on.

I think everyone that comes on this podcast asks us that question when we're married and

Okay.

So let's, let's put that into say leadership though, where we've got an organization, there's, there's 1500 people in the organization and the leader really wants to get to know the staff on a deeper level.

What could that leader do to train?

They're never going to get to the point where like where Sonia and I are at.

That's ridiculous with 1500 people, but.

How could they tap into people a little better in a leadership point of view?

Dan, that is so interesting.

We both come from traditional media, like I mentioned, and we came from the advertising world.

And there is a real big shift that is going on right now where you've got radio stations where you are and you would have heard the ads on the radio and you would have seen a billboard on the side of the road.

And there's a shift now where audiences are much smarter, right?

They're not necessarily allowing themselves to be manipulated by advertising anymore or standard advertising.

So if they hear an ad on the radio, do they really believe it?

Or when they see a billboard, they're questioning it more now than what they were in the past.

So I think there's this real interesting shift of trust towards advertising or trust towards marketing.

And marketers are going through a real period of having to learn how to engage audiences now on a different level or a deeper level.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, we're seeing this.