Sonia Shah

Migration and innovation, it's all kind of wrapped up in this dynamic tension.

So if we want those benefits, we need to capitalize on all that, minimize the risks, minimize the costs, and capitalize on those benefits.

We're really seeing a backlash to that whole equation right now, which is why we're having this conversation, to be frank, right now.

Yeah, I mean, I think it goes back to how we think of our kind of place in nature.

You know, Zeke just pointed out the idea of the caring capacity.

And I think a lot of our anti-immigrant rhetoric does trace back to these biological ideas, these ideas about nature

and which are actually outdated in biology itself.

So ecosystems are not these, they don't have settled carrying capacities either.

Other species are moving around just as much as we are, we're finding.

And they also do create technologies.

If you can, you know, if you think about the web of a spider or the nest of a bird being a kind of technology for those species.

So

We are not exceptional in moving around the planet either.

And this has been happening all along.

So and the reason we can say that is, you know, why are we doing that?

Well, in evolution, we know things that last over time that get dispersed throughout all these different species.

It's because the benefits outweigh the risks.

over time.

And so migration is sort of our adaptive solution to life on a dynamic planet.

And that's not just true for us.