SPEAKER_02

They got most of Luhansk.

But there's still Ukrainians controlling part of it.

And then he's controlling part of these territories in the south.

So this is what Trump means when he says the land swaps, meaning essentially you get out of the Donbass region, give me that, and I'll give you back Luhansk.

You know, the land swaps are Putin taking what he wants and leaving you the rest.

But if you're going to tell Vladimir Putin, who fought this entire war over Ukrainian entry into NATO being his red line, basically in the middle of the war, as the war is potentially wrapping up, you're going to tell him, hey, whatever territory you don't take here will be a part of NATO.

Well, what does that incentivize him to do?

Take more of it then.

Then why would you stop and give the rest of it up?

And it does seem to me like that is clearly, at least from the Europeans, that is clearly the motivation of all of this is to present something.

It's, you know, they do have their chess war moves.

And so you present something that you know the other side can't agree to.

And then when they don't agree to it, you go, look, we tried to negotiate and he just wouldn't take us up on this.

And so what can you do?

Yeah, he got sucked into this talk about the rare earth minerals stuff.

And, you know, it's Donald Trump.

It's like his weakness because, you know, there's a lot of great things about deal.

Yeah, there's a lot of great things about coming from a business background, but then there's, like, the weakness of it is that he's always attracted by, like, you're like, hey, Gaza could be beachfront property.

You know, and he's like, ooh.

And you can just see him, like, come alive with these ideas.