SPEAKER_02

There's reports that Zelensky and the Europeans are like open to land swaps as long as there's, in their words in the Axios piece, Article 5-like security guarantees.

So in other words...

the rest of Ukraine's in NATO, which is the thing that caused the whole conflict to begin with.

Article five, article five is a, the article in, in NATO, in the NATO agreement that says that like,

it says that like if one of the countries is attacked, like all the countries have to join together to help.

It doesn't exactly say you got to go to war over it, but it's like you have to help in the effort if they're attacked.

So essentially that's what they're trying to ask now, which is, but if you think about it, right, it's designed to,

to incentivize Putin to keep the war going.

Because if you're telling Vladimir Putin, let's just say, which it's not exactly clear that he would even take the deal that I just laid out before, but there was, I know that it's been reported that he was, it was being signaled that he might be open to that deal.

I get the Don Bass region, you know, he's got still, um,

The Donbass region is Donetsk and Luhansk.

And in Luhansk, I think, as of right now, I think the Russians control like 75% of it.

They got all of Donetsk.

They got most of Luhansk.

But there's still Ukrainians controlling part of it.

And then he's controlling part of these territories in the south.

So this is what Trump means when he says the land swaps, meaning essentially you get out of the Donbass region, give me that, and I'll give you back Luhansk.

You know, the land swaps are Putin taking what he wants and leaving you the rest.

But if you're going to tell Vladimir Putin, who fought this entire war over Ukrainian entry into NATO being his red line, basically in the middle of the war, as the war is potentially wrapping up, you're going to tell him, hey, whatever territory you don't take here will be a part of NATO.

Well, what does that incentivize him to do?