Stacey Abrams

And right now, like almost every day, listening to what's to come can feel like daily doom scrolling. And unlike 2016, when people talked about resistance, this time people have responded by saying they need to protect themselves first. I totally get that. The rule is put your own mask on first. But we're not on this trip alone. So eventually we'll need to help our fellow travelers.

And right now, like almost every day, listening to what's to come can feel like daily doom scrolling. And unlike 2016, when people talked about resistance, this time people have responded by saying they need to protect themselves first. I totally get that. The rule is put your own mask on first. But we're not on this trip alone. So eventually we'll need to help our fellow travelers.

I'm here to help us prepare for when and how we engage and insist. That begins by understanding what's really at risk versus what's just hateful, wishful thinking. What impact can these proposals have and what's not being said? And as always, how do we fight back? So let's get straight into it with our interview today.

I'm here to help us prepare for when and how we engage and insist. That begins by understanding what's really at risk versus what's just hateful, wishful thinking. What impact can these proposals have and what's not being said? And as always, how do we fight back? So let's get straight into it with our interview today.

Dr. Celine Gounder is an infectious disease specialist, epidemiologist, and a science communicator. She is the editor-at-large for public health at KFF Health News. She produces podcasts and other content to help us understand what's going on in public health, and she was a regular guest on news shows during COVID-19.

Dr. Celine Gounder is an infectious disease specialist, epidemiologist, and a science communicator. She is the editor-at-large for public health at KFF Health News. She produces podcasts and other content to help us understand what's going on in public health, and she was a regular guest on news shows during COVID-19.

bringing us grounded, reasonable, and actionable information when misinformation and disinformation met a wave of panic and worry. Does that sound familiar to anyone? So here to keep us all informed and sane is Dr. Gounder. Thank you so much for being here.

bringing us grounded, reasonable, and actionable information when misinformation and disinformation met a wave of panic and worry. Does that sound familiar to anyone? So here to keep us all informed and sane is Dr. Gounder. Thank you so much for being here.

Dr. Gounder, I have a public health crisis question for you. Are American politicians and policymakers allergic to science?

Dr. Gounder, I have a public health crisis question for you. Are American politicians and policymakers allergic to science?

That language is perfect, that it's when science is politically inconvenient. And it's actually a perfect encapsulation of one of the reasons I started with that question. There was the letter from the over six dozen Nobel laureates about RFK Jr. 's appointment. Thank you so much for having me.

That language is perfect, that it's when science is politically inconvenient. And it's actually a perfect encapsulation of one of the reasons I started with that question. There was the letter from the over six dozen Nobel laureates about RFK Jr. 's appointment. Thank you so much for having me.

These Nobel laureates, though, these chemists and medical professionals and economists are very deliberate about pointing out that RFK Jr. has no credentials or relevant experience, quote unquote, in science, public health or medicine or administration. And as you pointed out, this is a question of value.

These Nobel laureates, though, these chemists and medical professionals and economists are very deliberate about pointing out that RFK Jr. has no credentials or relevant experience, quote unquote, in science, public health or medicine or administration. And as you pointed out, this is a question of value.

So how important is it to not only have values-driven decision-making and science-driven decision-making, how important is it to have science-driven and scientific knowledge and experience to be the Secretary of Health and Human Services.

So how important is it to not only have values-driven decision-making and science-driven decision-making, how important is it to have science-driven and scientific knowledge and experience to be the Secretary of Health and Human Services.

Well, that brings us to the other nominees. So while a lot of attention has focused on RFK Jr. heading HHS, the two of the top jobs are also under consideration. And one of the pending nominees is Mehmet Oz. The other is Matt McCurry, both of whom are physicians, but who each have had controversial experiences.

Well, that brings us to the other nominees. So while a lot of attention has focused on RFK Jr. heading HHS, the two of the top jobs are also under consideration. And one of the pending nominees is Mehmet Oz. The other is Matt McCurry, both of whom are physicians, but who each have had controversial experiences.

And there have been questions about their fealty to scientific principles in their work or the implications of their policy proposals. So what do their nominations tell you about the incoming administration's thinking about this?

And there have been questions about their fealty to scientific principles in their work or the implications of their policy proposals. So what do their nominations tell you about the incoming administration's thinking about this?