Stacey Abrams

bringing us grounded, reasonable, and actionable information when misinformation and disinformation met a wave of panic and worry. Does that sound familiar to anyone? So here to keep us all informed and sane is Dr. Gounder. Thank you so much for being here.

bringing us grounded, reasonable, and actionable information when misinformation and disinformation met a wave of panic and worry. Does that sound familiar to anyone? So here to keep us all informed and sane is Dr. Gounder. Thank you so much for being here.

Dr. Gounder, I have a public health crisis question for you. Are American politicians and policymakers allergic to science?

Dr. Gounder, I have a public health crisis question for you. Are American politicians and policymakers allergic to science?

That language is perfect, that it's when science is politically inconvenient. And it's actually a perfect encapsulation of one of the reasons I started with that question. There was the letter from the over six dozen Nobel laureates about RFK Jr. 's appointment. Thank you so much for having me.

That language is perfect, that it's when science is politically inconvenient. And it's actually a perfect encapsulation of one of the reasons I started with that question. There was the letter from the over six dozen Nobel laureates about RFK Jr. 's appointment. Thank you so much for having me.

These Nobel laureates, though, these chemists and medical professionals and economists are very deliberate about pointing out that RFK Jr. has no credentials or relevant experience, quote unquote, in science, public health or medicine or administration. And as you pointed out, this is a question of value.

These Nobel laureates, though, these chemists and medical professionals and economists are very deliberate about pointing out that RFK Jr. has no credentials or relevant experience, quote unquote, in science, public health or medicine or administration. And as you pointed out, this is a question of value.

So how important is it to not only have values-driven decision-making and science-driven decision-making, how important is it to have science-driven and scientific knowledge and experience to be the Secretary of Health and Human Services.

So how important is it to not only have values-driven decision-making and science-driven decision-making, how important is it to have science-driven and scientific knowledge and experience to be the Secretary of Health and Human Services.

Well, that brings us to the other nominees. So while a lot of attention has focused on RFK Jr. heading HHS, the two of the top jobs are also under consideration. And one of the pending nominees is Mehmet Oz. The other is Matt McCurry, both of whom are physicians, but who each have had controversial experiences.

Well, that brings us to the other nominees. So while a lot of attention has focused on RFK Jr. heading HHS, the two of the top jobs are also under consideration. And one of the pending nominees is Mehmet Oz. The other is Matt McCurry, both of whom are physicians, but who each have had controversial experiences.

And there have been questions about their fealty to scientific principles in their work or the implications of their policy proposals. So what do their nominations tell you about the incoming administration's thinking about this?

And there have been questions about their fealty to scientific principles in their work or the implications of their policy proposals. So what do their nominations tell you about the incoming administration's thinking about this?

So to your point about combining the need for science and for policymaking, what happens when you have a scientist who doesn't seem to believe or at least live those beliefs?

So to your point about combining the need for science and for policymaking, what happens when you have a scientist who doesn't seem to believe or at least live those beliefs?

And you just pointed out that we are already on shaky ground. And this administration is not only rejecting expertise or bringing in people who have demonstrated a flawed use of their expertise. But there's also, as you said at the top of the conversation, this intent to replace civil servants who have that expertise with hires who are based on loyalty and not capacity.

And you just pointed out that we are already on shaky ground. And this administration is not only rejecting expertise or bringing in people who have demonstrated a flawed use of their expertise. But there's also, as you said at the top of the conversation, this intent to replace civil servants who have that expertise with hires who are based on loyalty and not capacity.

You mentioned H5N1 as one of the possible outcomes. Can you talk a little bit more about the implications of this lack of capacity when it comes to public health, not just in terms of pandemics, but just the larger public health universe?

You mentioned H5N1 as one of the possible outcomes. Can you talk a little bit more about the implications of this lack of capacity when it comes to public health, not just in terms of pandemics, but just the larger public health universe?