Stacey Abrams

the uneven and sort of patchwork response, which seemed to prove that nothing was true, therefore nothing would ever be true. You know, there was the, you know, first we all wiped down every surface, and then we realized wiping down every surface wasn't necessary. And opponents of science hold this up as proof that the public should turn against the scientist.

How do you respond to people who might be convinced that no one is right without invalidating how difficult that time was?

How do you respond to people who might be convinced that no one is right without invalidating how difficult that time was?

So basically, I'm going to translate this into television. We need to be more like Dr. House than we are like Law & Order.

So basically, I'm going to translate this into television. We need to be more like Dr. House than we are like Law & Order.

So as a practical matter, as a practical translation, if I'm having a conversation over the holidays with someone who tells me, well, we didn't get it right in COVID and that's why I'm not paying attention to H5N1. That's why it doesn't matter who's in charge. What's the pithy response that we want listeners to be able to give?

So as a practical matter, as a practical translation, if I'm having a conversation over the holidays with someone who tells me, well, we didn't get it right in COVID and that's why I'm not paying attention to H5N1. That's why it doesn't matter who's in charge. What's the pithy response that we want listeners to be able to give?

Or at least how do they start a conversation in a way that reminds us all of our high school bio classes?

Or at least how do they start a conversation in a way that reminds us all of our high school bio classes?

So part of the genius of Project 2025 and the effectiveness of the Trump administration approach is that by targeting everything, our attention has nowhere to focus and it's nearly impossible to concentrate. And that is especially true in this assault on health. Because HHS is such a mammoth agency with so many responsibilities.

So part of the genius of Project 2025 and the effectiveness of the Trump administration approach is that by targeting everything, our attention has nowhere to focus and it's nearly impossible to concentrate. And that is especially true in this assault on health. Because HHS is such a mammoth agency with so many responsibilities.

I gave a little bit of a primer at the top of the episode, but I want to spend a few minutes with you really making sure we understand what the Department of Health and Human Services is and why these attacks matter. So number one, can you break down what we need to understand about the agencies within HHS? And what are you most closely paying attention to?

I gave a little bit of a primer at the top of the episode, but I want to spend a few minutes with you really making sure we understand what the Department of Health and Human Services is and why these attacks matter. So number one, can you break down what we need to understand about the agencies within HHS? And what are you most closely paying attention to?

So let's go back to the CDC for one second. When we hear about dividing the CDC, what does that mean and why should we be worried?

So let's go back to the CDC for one second. When we hear about dividing the CDC, what does that mean and why should we be worried?

When I think about all of these agencies and how they intertwine, one of the conversations then is how easy is it to do this? And I know you focus on public health and not necessarily the ins and outs of congressional action, but how easy would it be to divide the CDC or to allow the FDA to rescind the polio vaccination authorization? Yeah. Are those things that take a lot of time?

When I think about all of these agencies and how they intertwine, one of the conversations then is how easy is it to do this? And I know you focus on public health and not necessarily the ins and outs of congressional action, but how easy would it be to divide the CDC or to allow the FDA to rescind the polio vaccination authorization? Yeah. Are those things that take a lot of time?

Are those things that are imminent? Is it something that happens by executive order? Can you talk a little bit about how public health actually gets changed in this country?

Are those things that are imminent? Is it something that happens by executive order? Can you talk a little bit about how public health actually gets changed in this country?

And I would also throw out there that there are budgetary implications, and that means Congress gets involved. And when someone, let's say Mitch McConnell, flags that he is very unhappy about the threat to the polio vaccine, his lever of power is whether or not something moves through. Even though he's not going to be the majority leader, he has a vote in the Senate and a little bit of influence.