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you know, you look at the list of them and I can honestly say, you know, and I've been in the health field a long, long time, but I really learned a lot. I really, I really, really learned a lot. And, um, and I hope that that's true for, for everyone. It's like, there's, there were like takeaways from just about every show that I thought were, were really good. The, um,
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So Clarence, it's been an absolute pleasure working with you and the rest of the crew. And then finally, Human Partnership. Without them as our sponsor, we couldn't do this. And so thank you very much to them. Great community health organization. Recognizing
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For instance, one of the shows on hearing, for instance, we timed that show when a law was passed here where it's easier for people to get hearing aids over the counter, actually, in drugstores or even in places like Best Buy. And it's like, whoa, okay, what do we need to know here before we proceed with something like that? Another show, even though I was kind of
Health Chatter
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knowledgeable about it, but I'm not sure that others were, were a show on orthopedic replacements, you know, knee replacements, shoulder replacements. And we had Dr. David Fisher on and who's a really noted orthopedic surgeon. And I know him intimately because he did both my knees and, and, and how things have really progressed, you know, you know, just over, over the course of years.
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You know, 35 years ago, the thought of having a knee replaced was not in everybody's psyche. And now you can. And so these are things, medical advancements really became a good subject to talk about. Yeah, Erin.
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Absolutely. And I know you were on the show and I thank you You know, for your insights about, your personal insights about diabetes, greatly, greatly appreciated. And I'm hoping that in those kinds of situations, people get a sense of how others can empathize and help. And I think that's really, really important. One thing I came out of is communication. How about that is a theme.
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I mean, it's like we, you know, obviously we kind of use these podcasts as a vehicle for communication, but then what we communicate about and when we do it and how we do it. So for instance, we had Jeremy Olson on from the Star Tribune. We had Mike Shomer on from the Minnesota Department of Health. Arkel Georgiou talked about communication as a health advisor on KSTP television.
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And timing a messaging, you know, you think about COVID and how we messaged around that. It was really crazy, but we learned a lot as well. And so I think communication was a major theme throughout many of our shows.
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everything that really needs to be done for all of us as it relates to health, you can check them out at humanpartnership.org and also our website at healthchatter.org. podcast.com. So thanks to everybody. So let's get this show going. This should be kind of interesting. It's like, where do you start when we've had a myriad of different subjects around health?
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Yeah, we don't want to shy away from hard issues here. That's for sure. And, you know, we had other issues, too. I mean, we addressed racism, which is a tough... I mean, it's like, you know, you do a show on racism as a title of a show, and kind of the first thing you say is, where do you start? I mean, it's just like, how is it that you encapsulate racism in a show? We also...
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did a show on anti-Semitism. Remember that? And so I think we did those shows almost back to back. And these are issues, if you think about today, literally today, what we're really facing with around the world. So And some of these issues, by the way, some people have said, what happens when you run out of topics? I don't think we'll ever run out of topics. That's number one.
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But on the other hand, we could go back and revisit some of the topics as well. Yeah, Sheridan.
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Yeah. And, and, and to the research, the background research idea, um, Fortunately, you guys, you give us good statistics on where things are at on certain topics, if we can have the statistics, if they're available. And then we make them available to the listening audience on our website. So believe me, the topics or the ideas that come out of the research, believe me, are just fantastic.
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the tip of the iceberg on most of these subjects that we deal with. You know, we had Jan Malcolm on, remember? And, you know, Jan was the former commissioner of health and on the concept of leadership. How is it that we deal with leadership overall? And it was really interesting when I talked to Jan about A day before, she said, I don't even know where to start.
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I said, Jan, you've been leading for many years. I said, you could do this in your sleep. And I said, not to worry. And I remember the next day she called me up. She says, you know, that was really fun because she didn't feel handcuffed as a leader. She didn't feel handcuffed. She could say what she wanted to say, maybe finally. But at any rate, she made that point.
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And I was frankly thinking about it a little bit. Prevention, chronic disease, infectious disease, et cetera, et cetera. We've done a bunch of stuff. But anyway, Clarence, why don't you start her out?
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to me that it was important to her to be able to say the things that she was able to say that she couldn't say before. Yeah, D'Andra.
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Yeah, yeah. And that's fine. Just so everybody knows, you know, from our listening audience, the research that we use is just kind of a kickoff. It really gives Clarence and I some insight some baseline information that, that we can use when we, when we, especially when we have guests on the show, you know, there was another show that we did on sleep.
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And, you know, we, we kind of take a lot of these things just for granted. Oh yeah. Sleep. Yeah. Okay. It's good for you. Well, yeah, it's good for you, but what is it that you really need to know about it in order? You know, I can tell you is as you get older and, you need, apparently you need less sleep and your sleep is often disrupted.
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Welcome to Health Chatter. And this is a special edition. It's our 2023 Health Chatter Personal Reflections. So on board today, we have a majority of our crew that's with us that's going to chime in on this show. And it'll also give us a chance to really, frankly, reflect. on everything that we've done up to this point on Health Chatter.
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We talked about things like apnea, sleep apnea, which is quite prevalent. We also had, if everybody remembers, Dr. Nico Prank, who was one of the chair people for putting together Healthy people the objectives for the nation 2030, which really put in perspective what we hope to do as a nation.
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And then we followed that up with a variety of the state plans, like I mentioned, that complemented some of the objectives for the nation. So we were hoping that just like a state of Minnesota, for instance, can complement what's going on nationwide. Yeah, Clarence.
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Yeah, and as somebody who's suffering from what I consider to be, personally, what I consider to be a long COVID symptom, namely loss of taste and smell, I was reading an article just the other day that they're anticipating that some people will have that loss for up to three years. And I'm thinking, oh, no.
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I can't taste a good piece of key lime pie or a piece of chocolate is really gonna not be fun. But we've got great shows that also focused on things like just what I would consider to be kind of like ancillary from chronic disease per se, but we looked at things like pain or people that are suffering from disabilities
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as just things that are just part of their everyday life for many people, but how we, how we deal with them. We also looked at things like CPR and how people, you know, should be trained in CPR and how to effectively use automated external defibrillators, AEDs. So, I mean, these, these topics are,
Health Chatter
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I think are near and dear to our hearts, but some are closer knit into our souls because of where we are, whether a disease that we might be dealing with specifically or what have you. I thought maybe we could talk about just for a minute some of the shows that we can be looking forward to in 2024. Okay? So to get to whet the appetite for our listening audience. So here's some of the topics.
Health Chatter
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And there's actually quite a long list. Narcissism, climate, kids' health, loneliness, poverty, infant mortality, health and traveling, which Believe it or not, it's a big issue right now. Toxic relationships, fake news, food insecurity, organ donation, shots, all the different kinds of shots.
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And believe it or not, it seems like every day there's like a new shot that's coming in you need to get vaccinated for. And so people are getting reticent on how many should I be doing and just injecting my body with. Love. Love. and passion and what it means for us as human beings.
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Stress, we're gonna be talking about weight loss drugs, which is, it's almost like a fad right now, but what implications does it have going forward? We're gonna be looking at hospice, the idea of hospice and hospice care. I think Clarence, if I'm not mistaken, clean water. Wasn't that the one that you had mentioned?
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And then also a special guest that's already been booked for early January is Patty Wetterling. And she'll be talking about all the things that she's gone through in her life since her son was abducted and killed. And she's a great colleague and a wonderful, wonderful person. So that'll be a special episode as well. Clarence.
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Fake news? Yeah. You can't hear me. Yeah, we're going to be looking at fake news. And frankly, what is the definition of it even going forward? So, you know, it's just like.
Health Chatter
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All right. I think that kind of wraps up our show on personal reflections. As I think, I'm hoping that the audience recognizes is that as much as we hope that you're learning and chatting and getting informed on these subjects, guess what? We did too. And we enjoy chatting about it. We enjoy presenting the information to all of you in an open and honest way.
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We invite you, by the way, if you have any particular subjects that you would like us to have a show on, let us know through our website. We'll get those going as well in 2024. So with that, I want to wish all of you a happy holiday season and happy and healthy new year. And we will see you in 2024. So with that, keep health chatting.
Health Chatter
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And all of a sudden, we put on our public health hats. And we're saying, oh my goodness, what implications does a war have on health? And we did a show on that. And it was quite interesting. I mean, when you think about all the things that transpire in a war, and now we have basically two major wars going on around the world.
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The implications for health as it relates, just to start with, clean water or delivery of care, et cetera, became a real issue, heightened. And that really hit home for me during that period of time. Diandra, how about you?
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And I have a feeling we're going to be doing more shows on AI as we hear more and more about it and its implications in health. But that was a recent show. So Erin, I know that you've been connected with some of the shows, for sure, besides doing some of the background research. But which ones really kind of hit home for you that you can recall?
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Yeah, I mean, he was really good, you know, and I remember we had to book him way in advance. So it was nice to hear. Matthew. Which ones hit home for you?
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So it should be fun, and it should be a nice review for all of you, our listening audience. We have a great crew. I always introduce them because they're special to Clarence and I. Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, and Sharon and Nygaard all do our background research for us and do a superb job. Sheridan also provides some marketing expertise.
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Yeah, ironically, it was one of my favorite ones as well. It is interesting what we use pets for, I mean, besides companionship, but they also help you on a lot of different things. They tell you through their eyes, it's time to go for a walk, and all these good things that they bring into our lives. So yeah, that was a good episode. Sheridan, how about you?
Health Chatter
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Any particular episodes that really kind of hit the mark for you?
Health Chatter
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There's been a couple of episodes that Clarence and I did just by ourselves. And besides the fact that logistically it's a little bit easier, you don't have to link in a guest, but I really liked the episode on trust. The whole idea, and you know, when you think about all of these different subjects that we've talked about over the course of the year, there is a trust component in all of them.
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And whether that starts with your primary care physician or how you interact with the medical health field, how you trust one another as friends, colleagues, family. I thought it really had a strong, strong message to it. Clarence?
Health Chatter
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And then, of course, there's Matthew Campbell. Without him, none of these shows would get out to you in the great form that they are with a little bit of music attached. So we thank him for all his production expertise. And then, of course, there's Clarence Jones, who's my co-host. For all these shows so far, we hope that we have many, many more coming up in 2024.
Health Chatter
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Right. And appreciate it, you know. I will say this. It's like I think in in one show or another, I can't remember which one I might have mentioned the idea of the illusion of immortality. And, you know, obviously, when you're younger, you don't think you don't think about being mortal or dying because it's. way down in the future.
Health Chatter
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But then you look at, you know, Clarence and I, I mean, we're closer to it, you know, just by virtue of our age. And it does provide a perspective. It really, really does. But a worthy one, definitely a worthy one. We dealt with hard subjects. Mental health issues was, we did a couple of shows on mental health. We did shows on a variety of chronic diseases.
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And, you know, it's just kind of easygoing kind of poo-poo on chronic diseases. But guess what? That's what's hitting us, whether it be heart disease, where we did shows on. Um, we did a show on the, uh, on the state plan for, for heart disease and, um, and diabetes and also on, um, on cancer. We also, and we will be soon doing a show on the asthma plan.
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Again, this is for the state of Minnesota, but we hope it also, the ideas of the subjects that we talk about have implications for the listening audiences in other states as well.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
And Clarence, I'll let you introduce our illustrious guest.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's episode is how to navigate the health system with a very, very special guest. I'll let Clarence introduce her in a minute, so I'll keep you all guessing who she is. But in the meantime, I'd like to really thank our great background crew. And we really have a crew that's second to none. They work really, really well together.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
So let me ask, so, you know, it's like, for those of us who have been, you know, in healthcare for a while, we're kind of aware of this craziness. And we hear stories like we had, you know, one of our other shows was with Catherine Standifer who wrote Lightning Flowers, who had a very similar situation. She had a very, very serious heart condition
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
and here it is she had to navigate you know through all of this all right so same by the way a great book um so you know you get to a point where all right we all kind of know or are kind of at least aware of the problem or problems Where do we start to try to get this thing solved already? You know, it's kind of like enough already. It's created so many headaches.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
What, in your opinion, Melissa, might be the road to a good solution here?
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Right. So I want to talk about what's, what's come out of your, your, your information here is the concept of trust and the concept of protocols. So let's talk about trust for just a second. Again, we had a show about trust. All right. Which I, again, I think is, is frankly one of the solutions. I really, really do. If for, I'll give a, for instance,
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
About, oh, I don't know, three, four months ago, I had to get in to see my internist, okay? I called to make an appointment. You can't get in to see Paul for, you know, six months. And I'm thinking, what? This is, you know, come on. So you know what I did? I wrote a note directly to my internist, who I've known for a long time. He writes me back, Stan, give me two hours and I'll get back to you.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Within an hour, I get a call from, you know, the scheduling person. You know, Dr. Gottlieb, we'll see you, you know, next week. Well, okay, so I have a good, trusted relationship with a physician. That isn't true with everybody.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
And I think, I might be wrong, that a good, trusted relationship, one way or the other, like with this second clinic that you went to, that would increase trust, for God's sakes, you know, for your care. So I think trust is one aspect. What do you think about that? Is that?
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
You know, but I really think that that's, part of a solution for this big, humongous problem that we have. If people like any one of us individually established a trusted relationship with their provider, that in and of itself will help you to navigate. I think, I guess maybe I hope. So the other question I have for you is this, is this whole idea of protocols.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
So, you know, you're in the quality improvement arena. Ironically, my daughter is too at Dana-Farber in, you know, cancer institute in Boston. She's a quality improvement engineer. And this is what she said to me. God, it must have been a month ago.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
She says, Stan, you know, it gets really frustrating trying to do quality improvement in the health arena because everything is established under the guise of protocols. And if indeed you're trying to improve care or what have you, the first thing that they do is look at the protocol. And try to change the protocol, which God knows takes how long. So I'm sure you've had some experience with that.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
So if I sense what you're saying, it's for us as consumers, I guess is the best way to describe us. Knowing how I guess how to ask the right questions or just ask what you believe are the right questions and don't be intimidated by it all. Because all the stuff that's done for acute treatment and disease management can be really overwhelming. And yet, It's on us.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
It really should be on us to ask the hard questions. And I don't think people do that.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's so Clarence to your point. You know, I think about like in a children's hospital, I can guarantee you that nine times nine kids out of 10 would be happy when they're in the hospital. If you gave them an ice cream cone, right. Okay. That's right.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Adults, too. Absolutely. But on the other hand, we've got the medical condition to to attend to. So I think if if I'm not mistaken, there's a balance. There's a real a real, real balance there. in that kind of question that you're talking to.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
I do know from based on my experience dealing with, you know, the orthopedic patients I see, they greatly appreciate talking to somebody who's gone through it. Okay, so like, you know, an orthopedic surgeon who replaces a knee, you know, standing there doing the surgery, but guess what? They don't have a replaced knee themselves.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
So they've never experienced, they've heard about the pain and they've treated patients with pain and the discomfort of it, but they can't empathize with it. So then when I go in, somebody who's had a knee replacement, I talk to a patient, they're so grateful. They're absolutely so grateful.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
I mean, that makes them happy because they're getting some good information from somebody who's been down the path. Okay. And I think that may, so my response to you, Clarence, is a balance. Ice cream and, you know, good care.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
So, you know, I keep saying, you know, a lot of things under this umbrella, um, it's easy for us to maybe say we've got communication issues. Okay. Which, which we do not only in this, but in a million other things. Um, however, you know, being, being solution oriented, if we can for, for, for a minute, um, Let's play this one out.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
If somebody's got to go in for a procedure, you could probably think of your son, for instance. He's got to go in for a procedure. Well, automatically, everybody's stress level is heightened. What is it, based on your experience, what is it that would have been really good
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
for you to hear or be aware of before one of your son's particular procedures that would have really helped you to keep that stress level down, which obviously that is going to help your son, you know, et cetera. Can you reflect on that a little bit?
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Or is there a system set up to to do something like that? That seems like a no brainer to me. Right. I don't know. There are certain programs that do, like in the cardiovascular arena, there's some programs that are called mended hearts. For somebody who has gone through heart surgery, for instance, and somebody who is facing it, they connect them. Wonderful. Absolutely wonderful.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Yeah, or minimal. All right, so... Clarence, how do we get the gestalt around all of this? I mean, it's just like, okay, navigating the healthcare system. Oh my God. You know, just by saying that, you know, it increases your blood pressure. God knows how much. What should we be telling everybody out there in the listening audience?
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Well, I'll tell you, I don't know if we've solved anything. We've certainly put the issues out in the forefront. And I hope our listening audience realizes that you don't have to sit on your thumbs. You really don't. You can be an active participant in your own care, in the care of your loved ones, et cetera, and feel that you shouldn't be intimidated. Ask the right questions respectfully.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
That's fine. It shows that you care in the sense that you hope that they care as well. Clarence, last thoughts.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
You know, I want to thank you as well. It's like, you know, personally, my takeaway from a show like this is it's okay to ask. It really is. Don't just assume, okay, you know, it's okay to say why or ask why or question something every once in a while. Or it is okay to be an advocate for a loved one. I mean, don't think that you have to be intimidated by doing that. And I think the more we say it,
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
And the more we as consumers hear it and the more the healthcare providers and the health systems hear it, perhaps and hopefully we'll be on the right page together.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
You are an absolute gem. And we thank you so much for being part of our show. Exactly. To our listening audience, we hope to get this show out ASAP. So stay tuned and watch our Health Chatter website for that. In the meantime, we have more great shows coming up, so stay tuned for them. Everybody says, you know, what happens when you run out of topics in healthcare?
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Believe me, I don't think we have to worry. So with that, everybody, everybody out there, keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Sometimes when somebody can't do something, the other one picks up the ball and runs with it. So it's really, really good. And it makes our life, Clarence and my life, a lot easier in getting a successful health chatter show out to all of you. So thank you to Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard,
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Yeah, yeah. You know, so I've got a couple of interesting, you know, as I think about navigating the health system, It seems to me kind of an analogous situation in my mind is when any of us go like on an airplane, everything is out of our control. Here but the grace of God, we hope that this pilot and the co-pilot knows what the hell they're doing. Now, let's think about the health system.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Same thing. It's like when we have to get in to get some kind of care, whether it be for chronic condition or what have you, we're out of control. We hope that whoever it is at any given time really knows what they're doing. And at that point, correct me if I'm wrong, we don't even think about insurance because we're sick or somebody that we're attending to is sick and needs attention.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
So talk to me a little bit about that. You know, it's like this kind of sense of loss of control when we really need assistance, medical assistance.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
And Sheridan Nygaard for doing all our great background research on all our shows that give us some good talking points and things that sometimes Clarence and I would never think of. And so that's very well appreciated. Matthew Campbell is our production manager. Sheridan also does our marketing as well. So thank you to her. And thanks for doing our show today as well, Sheridan.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
You know, and the whole thing, you know, besides the care side of the equation, okay, where you're kind of, you know, at the mercy of the healthcare providers, then there's the other side of the equation navigating this health system, which is so damn confusing. It's just like, you know, even for those of us who are in healthcare care. Okay.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
Some angle of it doesn't matter where, even for us, it's just like, my God, you know, it's like, it's just insane. I'll give you a perfect illustration. So, you know, I, I see orthopedic patients after they've had knee surgery and here's just a little microcosm of what I think is just crazy.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
There are these machines that they use to provide iced water around a person's knee, a machine, electric machine, okay? And you ready? The patients can rent the machines. And I'm thinking, you know, and I've talked to these patients and I've said to them, I said, isn't it sad? Isn't it just sad that your insurance just doesn't cover this machine for, you know, two weeks while you need it at home.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
It's $75 a week. Okay. To rent it. And I'm thinking, think about the complicated aspects for a patient who's at the mercy of everybody because their knee is killing them at that point and they want to use this machine. So what do I say? I say, you know, you've come this far, just rent it. If you can afford it, just do it because your recovery will be quicker.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
And then, of course, there's my great partner in crime, Clarence Jones. He and I have a great time doing this together. We've learned how to chat a lot better over all of these shows, but it's been really fun. And we really, really appreciate all of our guests that have been here. an integral part as well. So with that, we're going to get the show moving today, navigating the health system.
Health Chatter
Navigating the Health System
But again, it's just like all these little dumb things that drive us all nuts. And it creates stress, I think too. So, and that's the point I want to take up with you. It's like under Who cares? How do you kind of monitor stress?
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
And frankly, neither one of us knew what the hell we were doing, but we thought it would be kind of exciting in a new way to effectively communicate with the public around a variety of health issues. And I remember Clarence saying to me, well, let's just do it. I mean, it's just like, and of course, you know, my reaction is, well, what do you mean just do it?
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
Well, you know, thank you. You know, one thing that kind of came to mind when you were speaking, Matthew, is how interconnected all of these subjects are in health. all of them have some impact for all of us. Doesn't matter what the subject is. It might not be touching you directly, but knowing about the subjects even indirectly is important. So thanks. Diandra.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
You know, and you bring up a really important point, you know, it's okay to disagree and you can still be civil to one another and learn from one another. And I think that certainly has been true with Health Chatter. All right, Barry. So Barry was brought on as our medical advisor. Clarence and I realized that at some point that, excuse me, we aren't, you know, physicians.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
We come at it with a public health lens. And many of the topics had clinical aspects to them where we say, boy, wouldn't it be good And it turns out that Barry was on our show. How many shows did you do, Barry, with us? Was it three shows?
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
You know, of course, you know, there's a lot of logistics to it all. But his excitement really underscored us going ahead with it. So Clarence, your initial thoughts.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
Yeah, okay. So there were three shows that he did with us. And we said, boy, you know, Barry would be really good. So, again, I remember having breakfast with Barry and Clarence, and it was kind of like, Slam dunk. Let's just do it. And Barry said, hey, yeah, let's give it a try. And it's been going strong. So, Barry, thanks for your insight. So your perspectives on this so far.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. It's a special show. Actually, all our shows are special, but this is a celebratory type of show because we are going to celebrate our 100th show today. And we're going to be talking with all of us who have been involved with Health Chatter for the last, oh, what, two and a half years, two and a half plus years. So it's been a wonderful ride.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
There's always been an ongoing list. Our listening audience should know that we have an ongoing list of topics And it's also interesting, and I'm sure all of you can reflect on this a little bit. There were, you know, many of our shows we have guests, but then it got to the point where we said, you know, some of these shows, let's just have us talk about this.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
And there were a few of those, and those were quite engaging as well. I'd be remiss in not... recognizing human partnership. And to that point, I want to circle back to Clarence and have him share a little bit about human partnership as our sponsor and how they are involved.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
You know, I think human, just so everybody knows, is spelled H-U-E-M-A-N. And, um, I was always drawn to, to the idea behind that. And in the idea that, you know, it doesn't matter what color your skin is. We all have health issues that, that we need to talk about and be aware of. And so, um, thank you to human partnership.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
They've been a wonderful, wonderful partner, um, and engaged with, um, with health chatter, you know, um, one thing that, that I've realized, you know, okay, so yes, you know, I'm, I'm retired, but on the other hand, um, I see health chatter as a really interesting, engaging way to have continuing education, uh, to be update updated on many of these issues that, um, we still, we still face.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
And, um, I don't know about you guys, but I'd, I've really learned a lot. And I reflect on doing some of these shows where I sit back and I just listen and say, wow, you know, I never thought of it, whatever it was, that way. And in many ways, it's been very, very special.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
One thing I'd also want to bring up is, you know, it was really easy on the front end to just think of health chatter as the alpha really oriented issue, whether it's a chronic disease or infectious disease, but we also got involved in a lot of, um, of a lot of other issues, social issues, um, gun violence. Um, I remember as one, we got into the ideas of, um, racism and antisemitism. Um,
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
And mental health, we did a whole series of shows on mental health issues. And so it's like how all these things kind of interplay. We did a show on poverty, on homelessness. So they're all intertwined and we've learned much, much, much. Going forward with... With Health Chatter.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
We have topics that, first of all, you in the listening audience, if you have some ideas that you'd like to hear about or chat about, feel free to let us know on our website, which is healthchatterpodcast.com. By the way, circling back, you can check out Human Partnership at humanpartnership.org.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
But some of our shows coming forward are going to be focusing on climate, veterans' health, children's health, reproductive rights. We'll probably land up doing another show on what we'll call shots, okay, or vaccinations. And there's a lot of them. The idea of love and passion. We want to look at issues surrounding men's health, women's health.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
Yeah. You know, you have always carried the torch of how is it that we can just have some open, honest discussions, conversations about all these topics in, in health. And, and in a way that people feel comfortable and can ask questions and become knowledgeable about these particular subjects. And I don't know about you guys, but I've certainly learned a lot.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
um, long-term care insurance, um, planned parenthood, um, as, as an organization that we can, uh, we can discuss stress and anxiety, um, LGBTQ. And like Aaron said, uh, we'll be doing a show on, uh, on cannabis. So again, the list keeps expanding. So, um, To you, the listening audience, thank you. Thank you so much for being part of our journey for our 100th show here.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
It's been special to us, and we hope it's been special for you as well. So for all of you out there in listening land, keep health chatting away. Thank you.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
I also have to thank the School of Public Health at the University of Minnesota. Without them, we would not have been able to identify our, our gang who, who basically all we did, Clarence and I, all we did was we put out a notice, Hey, is there anybody at the school of public health that might be interested in being part of developing and doing a podcast? And, Oh my God.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
I don't know if you remember Clarence, but we got a lot of interest. I mean, it was, I mean, it was hard to go through all the different resumes and letters of interest, but I will tell you this, that the people we defined, it really was not hard to say, boy, they really rise to the top. And you could just tell that their minds were always clicking
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
that they had opinions of their own that we knew would add to the show. And maybe more than anything, they had the energy and also the talent to be able to do some of the things that we knew had to be done. So it was really a treat to get them all. I'm going to go around the horn here a little bit.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
One of the things I'd really like us all to consider here is where we have been and where we hope to go next.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
Thank you to everybody. And and I can't underscore this enough by saying that without our crew behind the scenes and also who are part of our podcasts from time to time, we would not be where we are now. They are really second to none and wonderful, wonderful people. So Maddie, Levine Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, Matthew Campbell, Sheridan Nygaard, Barry Baines. Thank you.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
You know, thank you. You know, one thing I could say for sure, Sheridan, is you for sure, and others as well, but you for sure have brought in life experiences and a personal sense of passion to our shows that I greatly appreciate. For all of you, I know that there are some personal things that you are willing to share on some of these shows.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
Like for instance, Aaron, I remember when we were doing our shows on diabetes, and you are really connected with that topic for sure. Just death and dying, I remember, Sheridan, you were involved with that. Relationships, I know, you know, Maddie, you've been involved with that. And so it's like everybody's got passions that they're willing to share, which I greatly, greatly appreciate. Clarence.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
Thank you so much for everything you've done for Health Chatter up to this point. And of course, there's Clarence. And, you know, I keep thinking back, Clarence, when you and I met over breakfast and we were just talking about this show, the possibility of even doing a podcast.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
Thank you. You've been a truly special member. For our listening audience, Maddie started out here where we record in Minneapolis, Minnesota, but now lives in Chicago and is still intimately involved with our shows. One thing I've come to realize is that as we've developed the shows over these years, everybody falls into a particular niche of responsibility, and they're really good at it.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
And so, you know, thank you all for that. So Erin, are you there?
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
exciting episode as well so although we've done hundreds now of episodes there's still so much more that we can touch on and um that is really exciting thank you again um aaron you know you've been on since since day one and um you're a great great team member let's go to um How about Matthew? Matthew is our production person.
Health Chatter
100th Episode Special
Without him, the shows would not get out to you, the listening audience, all the editing, putting in music, making sure that everything is clear. Matthew is second to none. So Matthew, take it away.
Health Chatter
Stroke
Hello, everyone. Welcome to Health Shatter. And our show today is on stroke and hopefully not having one. That's the idea. That's hopefully the final takeaway of the show. We have a great guest with us today, a really great colleague of mine. We'll get into that in a second. I'd like to highlight our great crew. that, frankly, without their expertise, Clarence and I would be lost.
Health Chatter
Stroke
And they're our sponsor for Health Chatter and many, many thanks to them. You can see everything they do and get information about them at humanpartnership.org.
Health Chatter
Stroke
Yeah, of course. So here's an interesting comment. A lot of people are reticent to call 911 or go in an ambulance or this type of thing. Some people even, you know, elderly people will often say things like, you know, an ambulance is really for a real, real bad emergency. Okay, a real bad emergency somewhere, you know, there's whatever.
Health Chatter
Stroke
But, you know, I'm just, you know, myself, you know, it's no, you know, I'll get to the hospital if I need to, et cetera. Our point, one of the major points so far in this discussion is that's not correct, okay? What's correct is, 911 is for any kind of an emergency, and this is an emergency. Get in, and you know what? Worry about all the expense stuff later.
Health Chatter
Stroke
You know, that could be all siphoned out, okay? Expenses aren't life-threatening. What are life-threatening are the symptoms that you're having at this particular point. All right, so we've kind of been focusing our conversation on identification and acute treatment let's go into the another theme here of stroke and namely Prevention. So, all right.
Health Chatter
Stroke
So nobody's, let's just say for a moment, whoever's listening, you're not, you don't have any symptoms and all this kind of good stuff, but how is it that we can truly prevent a stroke?
Health Chatter
Stroke
things to say and how we can all help each other around many, many issues related to health. So again, thank you. Thank you to Human Partnership. So, all right, today we're going to talk about a subject that's actually in my career was near and dear to my heart, although this has more to do with your brain. It's called stroke. We're going to look at, we're going to talk about
Health Chatter
Stroke
prevention, acute treatment, disease management, community initiatives, et cetera, with a great colleague of mine, and I have to really underscore this, Dr. Haitham Hussain from the University of Minnesota. Boy, I don't even know where to start. We've been involved in a lot of things, and I really have to underscore
Health Chatter
Stroke
So here's, you know, just so everybody is clear, oftentimes, Mark, we talk about cardio vascular disease. Okay. And what basically what we're dealing with is heart disease. And in this case, brain disease, if you, if you want to look at it that way and most people, when they think of cardiovascular, they only think about heart, but the vascular part is really connected to heart disease.
Health Chatter
Stroke
and brain and the risk factors are complimentary for both both arenas. The thing is, is that as you age, and you mentioned this, there are certain things that are frankly inevitable, there are certain things that are going to catch up with you one way or, or the other in and in keeping having consistent trusted care is also a major component for prevention. And not to compromise on that.
Health Chatter
Stroke
You should have a yearly checkup as you get older. If you're on medications, you need to have medication management, um, and assessment. Um, yes, taking your, your blood pressure more often than you did perhaps when you were in your forties, um, et cetera. So here's one thing I want to really kind of focus on. Have things gotten better?
Health Chatter
Stroke
So let me give you a, for instance, um, you know, when I was heading up the cardiovascular unit for years and years, um, what was known as the stroke belt of the United States, okay? And so for everybody, it's kind of a swath that runs from approximately Georgia, the state of Georgia, swinging down southeast and going west, almost as far as Texas.
Health Chatter
Stroke
your commitment to really providing insight and help and perspective around this subject. It's second to none. I just found out from Hytham that he's presently the president of the American Health Association in Minnesota here. And so thank you for that as well. But originally, just for our listening audience, Dr. Sane was originally from Egypt, where he attended medical school.
Health Chatter
Stroke
First question out of the gate, Haitham, has the stroke belt changed? If so, has it gotten better? Do we still have a stroke belt where the incidence of stroke, well, those years I was involved, was much higher, et cetera. Talk to us a little bit about the stroke belt.
Health Chatter
Stroke
So what's going on? What's going on in this stroke belt if nothing has really changed? What's going on down there?
Health Chatter
Stroke
And his first neurology residency at Ein Shams. Am I correcting that right? Am I pronouncing that right? Ein Shams University in Cairo. And then moved to the United States and did a residency here at the University of Minnesota. He's a second to none doctor. clinician and educator and researcher.
Health Chatter
Stroke
um, Hytham Clarence and I did a, um, a health chatter show on trust. Uh-huh. You know, and, um, One of the major themes that came out of that is it's important to have a trusted provider of care that you connect with and have access to them in order for us to at least start addressing some of these things in as a team effort between you, the patient, and you, your physician.
Health Chatter
Stroke
And if you have trust, it really, really helps. Today's environment is a lot different. You know, it's like some, some people see a different doctor every time they go in for, for care. And so that, that level of trust is never really quite built up, which I think personally, I think is an important thing in a message that we all, we all can do.
Health Chatter
Stroke
So here's, here's the, the other aspect of trust or of, of, stroke that I want to address and that's rehabilitation. So, all right. So we talked about acute treatment. We talk about prevention. Now let's say somebody has had a stroke and they're fortunate enough to have lived through it, but they've been affected by it. Okay. One way or the other. Okay.
Health Chatter
Stroke
I can only imagine if any of us, God forbid, had to have a stroke, having Dr. Saina as our physician would be really, really, really good. I don't want to have it. None of us want to have it, but not a bad doc to have to treat you. He's co-authored over 70 peer-reviewed articles and involved with contributing to textbooks, et cetera.
Health Chatter
Stroke
He was actively and still is actively involved in the Cardiovascular Health Alliance at the Minnesota Department of Health. So many, many thanks for being with us. We really appreciate it.
Health Chatter
Stroke
Talk a bit, just a minute. Let's just take a minute about rehabilitation, rehab.
Health Chatter
Stroke
Who coordinates all of this? So let's just say, let's play it out. Let's say I've had a stroke and I've been affected one way or the other. Does it start with you? as my neurologist and then the team expands based on need or how is it coordinated so that it becomes relatively easy for the patient to move forward?
Health Chatter
Stroke
We've got a great research crew that does background research for us on every one of our shows, Mandy Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, and Sharon Nygaard. Thanks to all of you for helping us with getting some useful information that we can talk about. Matthew Campbell is our
Health Chatter
Stroke
Yeah, you know, for the listening audience, we do this, we record these shows on Zoom. And if you could all see us, we have a little bit of a reflection off of Clarence's head, my head, and Haitham's head. So we have something in common here. So thank you for that. Anyway, okay, so let's talk about Strump. All right.
Health Chatter
Stroke
Overall, I think what's important for our listening audience, everyone to know is this. There is good stroke care available to all of us. Okay. 911 is something that has to be in everybody's minds and don't be afraid to use it. There are good, prevention-oriented things, especially if you, by virtue of your family, are perhaps at higher risk.
Health Chatter
Stroke
But all of us can still exercise, eat right, watch our weight, watch our blood pressure, etc. And then, unfortunately, if you know of someone or yourself that has had a stroke, It's not the end of the world, okay? If you've lived through it, there are good rehabilitation facilities that can help you get back to a normal life. This show has been very, very, very good. Clarence, last comment?
Health Chatter
Stroke
You're excellent at providing clear, and concise information about this subject. And that's what health chatter is all about. So Haitham, thank you. You're a great, great doc.
Health Chatter
Stroke
We're gonna do some, I thought what might be good is to provide the audience with some basic information and then we can get kind of into the nitty gritty. So first of all, what is exactly, what is a stroke? Most people I guess will respond to it when they have one or somebody close to them has one, but knowing ahead of time what it is and what you should be aware of, I think is important.
Health Chatter
Stroke
That's the hard work. So everybody in our listening audience, thanks for listening in today. Like we tell all of our guests, we reserve the right to give you a call back. Or if you have other reasons to use Health Chatter as a venue to get some more messaging out, please, please contact us. So to everybody out in our listening audience, keep health on.
Health Chatter
Stroke
So let me, let me ask you something. All right. So, um, Of the types that you just talked about, is there one that's more serious?
Health Chatter
Stroke
So Clarence, what do you think? You know, we've all known somebody that's had a stroke, you know, unfortunately. So Clarence.
Health Chatter
Stroke
production manager who does all the logistics of technically making sure that our shows are in tip-top shape for you, the listening audience. And then, of course, I couldn't do any of this without my great colleague, and I really have to underscore that, Clarence Jones. Clarence and I have known each other a long, long time. And We still like each other for all the different things that we do.
Health Chatter
Stroke
Let me ask you something. It's like... Okay, first of all, a person wouldn't necessarily experience all those symptoms, okay? So let me play something out. All of a sudden, you lose vision or half of your vision in an eye, okay? So how do you know? How would...
Health Chatter
Stroke
We do disagree at times, but we still give each other a good hug at the end. So it's wonderful having Clarence as a colleague for our health chatter. And then, of course, there's Human Partnership, which is a community organization that Clarence is really intimately involved with that helps a lot of people in the African-American community around health.
Health Chatter
Stroke
How would a person know if it's not like, hey, I should be calling my ophthalmologist because, you know, I might be experiencing a detached retina as opposed to, in this case, a stroke. So there could be some potential confusion there.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
Human Partnership is our sponsoring organization. That's H-U-E-M-A-N Partnership. Great community health organization. Recommend that you check them out when you check our website out. Their website is humanpartnership.org. And ours on Health Chatter is healthchatterpodcast.com. So thank you to everybody. So Clarence, you've got a great colleague that is going to be with us on this show today.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
Yeah. So let me, you know, I've got a couple of thoughts here. You know, when we're dealing with youth, I mean, we brought this up in a previous show, and we're talking about prevention. It always dawned on me that for youth, they have this illusion of immortality. You know, it's like, okay, you're going to tell me I'm going to get, you know, cancer or heart disease when I'm
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
you know, whatever age. And in the meantime, you know, leave me alone. I like to enjoy, you know, smoking away with cigarettes. So there's that component. I'm really curious about norm changes. So for instance, let me give you like a situation like seatbelts. I remember, you know, growing up, um, seatbelts weren't in our cars at all.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
I mean, you know, as kids, you know, we were thrown in the car and, you know, and, you know, and hopefully we were somehow or other safe, but norms have changed with regards to, to seatbelt usage where, um, People wear their seatbelts. There are laws. There are buzzers and bells in cars that remind you to buckle up, et cetera, et cetera. Now, if we look at tobacco usage, have norms changed?
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
You mentioned that to a certain extent, maybe it hasn't gotten any worse, but it hasn't maybe gotten any better. But have norms changed around the usage of tobacco? That's my first question.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
Barry, I'm sure you can chime in on this one, but when the Surgeon General's report came out, there were connections of tobacco usage with cardiovascular disease, with cancer. I mean, we'll just pick those two. And I just wonder, and Barry, maybe you can reflect on this a little bit, how it is that
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
health professionals, medical professionals grabbed hold of that information and applied it to their treatments and insights for their patients. In other words, all of a sudden, boom, we have this major thing that's connected with chronic diseases. How is it that physicians embrace that in order to help affect change around smoking?
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
Hello, everyone. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's show is on tobacco and some tobacco research, which, you know, it's unfortunate. I'll add this quick comment. It's unfortunate that we're still dealing with tobacco as a really major health issue. But lo and behold, it's still with us. We have a great guest with us. I'll get to her in just a second.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
Thank you. you know, so let me, you're a psychologist. I mean, you know, your background is in psych, mental health. And, you know, I, I remember where, um, you know, I saw colleagues smoking under stress, you know, it's a stress. It was connected with stress. Um, Are we still seeing that type of manifestation, the linkage between smoking and mental health vis-a-vis stress?
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
I'm interested in... in visual cues as it relates to smoking. So let me give you what comes to my mind. It's like, um, when you see movies, for instance, where there, um, there are, um, prisons and, you know, prisoners are, are smoking or they want to get cigarettes from, from one another. Okay. Or, um, War movies, you know, where military, you know, they're in bunkers or what have you.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
And, you know, they're sharing, you know, cigarettes or they're getting cigarettes. Or prisoners of war. You know, it's like, you know, it's like... get me a cigarette. So, you know, I, I just wonder, you know, if these, these kinds of, and I'm sure there are many, many others. I'm wondering if these visual cues are, are still with us and are having an impact on, on usage.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
So when you think about, okay, let's go back again to the Surgeon General's report that came out years ago. And every 10 years since then, healthy people, the objectives for the nation come out. And every year that certainly I'm aware of, there are objectives for the nation, addressing tobacco usage and also prevention oriented activities. So
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
What's your sense historically, I guess, year in and year out, if you were to come up with a new objective for the nation, what would be on your list right now? I mean, if we're going to really make an impact, a better impact than perhaps than we've done, what objective would you, based on your research and your clinical insight, what objective would you come up with?
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
You know, Barry, you probably can, can respond to this a little bit too from a, uh, a medical perspective. You know, I, I think of, you know, when, when you were speaking here, um, Christy, it's, it's, you know, we as humans have these, what I would dub turn to products, you know, what do I need to do?
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
You know, what do I have to turn to in order to decrease my stress, decrease my anxiety, whatever. Okay. Um, or to be cool, you know, you know, think about it. We, we, we turn to things like tobacco. We turn to things, alcohol, um, We turn to medications. We turn to, you know, meditation, you know, might be a turn to type of thing in order to decrease.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
So did you, you know, maybe both of you in your practices, have you seen Changes in what I just dubbed turn to types of things that we as human beings turn to in order to make us feel better, in order to decrease stress, in order to whatever. Some people might say the hell with it. I'm going to go shopping for new clothes or something.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
There are feel good things too, right? I mean, you know, just, I mean, this makes me feel good. You know, for me, it's not smoking or alcohol. It's a Snickers bar, you know,
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
i don't want to eat too many of those but but i think you know maybe you know from your perspective you can you know from mental health we don't we turn to these things like smoking as as crutches maybe to make us you know do you see more and more of that or are we seeing less of it or turning to different things
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
I mean, on one hand, I'm happy that we still have great researchers that are engaged in the subject of tobacco, its use in prevention. I'm happy on that hand. I'm sad that we still have to deal with it. You know what I mean? Woe these years. But it might be something that we just have to, from a health perspective, we just have to accept that it's going to be kind of around us.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
And it's like, how do we navigate going forward? So, you know, Dr. Christie, last words, last comments, things that you really want us, the listening audience to be aware aware of?
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
I'm going to link to the history and I'll reflect on Clarence's thoughts. He smoked cools. That wasn't cool. I'll leave everybody with this comment. It's not cool to smoke. It really isn't. It's not... good for you. And if you need help addressing it, there are great health professionals that can help you to address the problem that you might have. Thank you for being with us.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
We really look forward to if there's more research coming out that you'll tap us on the shoulder and say, hey, I want to be on your show so I can tell about some new findings. So thank you so much. Greatly appreciate the work you do and your willingness to be on our show today. For our listening audience, we have a great show coming up on vaccinations. Imagine that.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
It's kind of like vaccination season. And so we thought it would be timely to have a show on, okay, where do we sit with all the different kinds of vaccinations? And hopefully people aren't getting kind of lackadaisical about getting vaccinated. So that will be our next show. So stay tuned for that. And in the meantime, everybody keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
Yeah. I want to go back and ask this question again. You know, it's interesting. I, you know, when, you know, when we go back and you mentioned the surgeon general's report, I can't remember, it was in the seventies sometime, but that's a long time ago. I mean, you know, and we, we were dealing with, you know, we identified tobacco as a major health concern and, and,
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
historically, there were many, many things that were done. Like I remember when, for instance, back then when the Twins played in the Metrodome, it became smoke-free. And there were smoke-free places that were determined. And a lot of different activities have gone on. Yet, it's still with us. I mean, and it's a major health concern. So have we made any strides at all?
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
As always, we have a great crew that makes all these shows successful and interesting. We have a research crew that includes Maddie Levine, Wolf, Aaron Collins and Deandra Howard. Our production team. Person is Matthew Campbell does all the logistics, the recording and gets the shows out to you in great form with a little bit of music to you, the listening audience.
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
I mean, besides people knowing that, yeah, it's not good for you to smoke, but I smoke anyway. You know, I mean, what's going on here? Why is it that it's still with us the way it is?
Health Chatter
Tobacco Cessation
We also have Sheridan Nygaard with us and she does some background research for us as well as some marketing. And then of course, We have Clarence Jones, who's my great co-host and partner in crime when we do these shows, and Dr. Barry Baines, who provides us with a medical perspective on all our shows. So thank you to all of you. You're second to none.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
Are we at the same place? Or do we just assume that we're all going to die from something? And guess what? Those happen to be, you know, for human beings at this stage of the game, at least, cancer, number one in the state of Minnesota, then cardiovascular stroke, diabetes. Are we just going to deal with it like that going forward? And I'm talking from an epidemiological standpoint now.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
Yeah, what do you think, Courtney?
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today is, in my estimation, a special edition because we're going to be dealing with two subjects, namely cardiovascular health and diabetes as it relates to a new disease. brand new state plan that's being published or was published just a couple of days ago in the state of Minnesota. We have two great guests with us.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
You can visit them at humanpartnership.com. Org. Yeah. I always get that wrong, don't I? Yeah. Dot org. Humanpartnership.org. Check them out. Great community organization. So with that, let's get into our great people that are with us today. And that includes two colleagues I've worked with for a long time. Dr. Courtney Jordan, bachelor who's got her MD, actually got all of her trainings.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
You know, what's linked to it, and Claire's I'll get to in a second, is just the idea of it's a balance in my mind between urgency, which we're seeing in a lot of situations, and motivations. Motivation is a key, not only from an individual standpoint, but also a community standpoint in order to engage in essence, in this case, around a plan. Clarence.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
at the University of Minnesota, her medical degree, her degree in public health and epidemiology and public policy. She's board certified internist, cardiologist, and is involved in a lot of different things way beyond, frankly, just the field of cardiology. Her insights and her passion to try to affect change to make us all healthy is really second to none.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
You know, it's interesting. You know, it's a really good example of... People are really engaged with things that are really urgent in their mind. And if you show them first and foremost that, all right, let's tackle that. then they could be open to a true partnership in dealing with all the other stuff that we also have to address health-wise.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
But I think urgency for a lot of people is right up there. You know, gun violence. If you don't solve that in our community, the heck with cardiovascular, the heck with diabetes. Let's deal with that first, and then we'll get to it. So it might be this kind of one at a time in order to help build trust. So...
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
You know, what's really cool to me is, you know, first of all, you have three major goals, but then you get into your outcomes and investing in partnerships, which I think we've alluded to a little bit here. It's like, you know, we've had in our show, Clarence and I, we talked about the issue of trust, right? And how it is that you build just a partnership with your primary care provider.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
I mean, you could almost use that as an illustration and maybe bring it up a notch in a community. How is it that we can build trust with one another so that we can work together in order to do these things that are outlined in the plan? A perspective that I have, is this, that the previous plans kind of created a common denominator of things that we needed to address.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
And now we're really coming up the funnel, so to speak, and really addressing and hopefully addressing the things that are we have to address, you know, disparities, social determinants of health, et cetera. Clarence?
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
So far, our listening audience, I'll tell you that there's, you know, there's 10 basic, what would you call it, outcomes that you're looking for here. We look at investing in partnerships. And I'll just kind of state what they are. And then you can kind of react to these kind of in the gestalt of it all. Working towards health equity, sharing power,
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
to affect change, creating systems that improve access to care, improve health data collection, which by the way, epidemiologists, I'm going to get back to you on that one in a second. Expand and diversify health care, expand health education, support the implementation of community-led programs.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
Enhanced delivery of quality whole person care and ensure all people have access to the necessary resources. Okay, so Courtney and Jim, just respond overall to those outcomes that we're trying to do today.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
You'll see her total bio on our website, so check it out. But just a dear, dear friend and colleague. So Courtney. Thank you for being with us. And then there's Jim Peacock. Jim and I have a great history. We worked together for many, many years at the health department in the cardiovascular unit. He started there back in 2007, wasn't it, Jim?
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
You know, it's interesting, historically, and Jim, you and I can reflect on this, good, bad, or indifferent, when you get funding mechanisms that require that you have state plans. Okay, so like from the Centers for Disease Control, they required that the state of Minnesota, in this case, actually every state in the country, have a state plan for cardiovascular and a state plan for diabetes. Okay.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
And to be honest with you, the listening audience is probably the best hire I ever did. He and I were like... linked at the hip. And it's just incredible interactions that we have had over the years and from different perspectives. But his training is a doctorate in epidemiology and his master's in public health. And I always have appreciated Jim's perspective as an epidemiologist.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
Then when they loosened it up altogether and they say, well, we're not requiring that you have plans, then that kind of opened up the gates for like the state of Minnesota to say, hey, why don't we all talk together? OK, and put it all together in one.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
You know, it's, I know, I was kind of chuckling, frankly, as I was reading this plan, because I know that epidemiologists will say, will ask this very question, how in the hell are we going to measure this? Okay. And
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
I kept thinking in the back of my head, and those of you who know, I've often signed off on emails with an infamous quote from Albert Einstein, who basically said, not everything that counts can be counted. And not everything that is counted counts. So when you really think about that, that really intersects beautifully with this plan. Epidemiologists will say, hey, you know what?
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
We'll still be able to report how many people died and how many people had heart attacks and how many people had strokes and et cetera, et cetera. We'll still be able to do that while hopefully the success of the plan will be inherently going forward with all these different objectives and strategies.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
And then when we look at the data, we'll be able to say, geez, you know, something must be going on right here because we're seeing decreases in deaths, we're seeing decreases in strokes. So anyway, all right, so epidemiologists respond.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
And he recalls this as like, it's one thing to know the data and just to present that. But he always has always carried the torch of, so what? How is it that we can, based on the knowledge that we get from analyzing all this information, how is it that we can affect And he has really, really carried that torch professionally.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
You know, like I said, I read through this plan and in my mind, I kind of closed it and I sat back and I really felt good. And so I would encourage listeners, take 10 minutes and go through this plan because I guarantee you there will be something in this plan That will make you feel good that, yeah, this is a good direction to take. It's not as technically or medically oriented.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
And I've greatly appreciated that perspective, not only working with you, but also the torch that you carry carrying on at the health department in the cardiovascular health unit. So thank you both for being with us today. All right, so let's get the ball rolling here. So, you know, I thought that, and actually both of you have been involved historically.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
It's really getting down to us and what we really need to do to affect change and make us all feel healthy. So, you know, I encourage everybody, look at it. Pick something in there that's of interest to you and see how it is that you can link with another partner to affect change. I personally think this is a feel-good plan. There's stuff in it, frankly, for everyone. Clarence.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
You know, and all this information will be available on the Health Chatter website.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
website as well so all the all the background research and the the links to the full plan the pdf of it are also on our our website so again i i encourage you i i want to reserve and i say this actually to a lot of our guests but maybe in this case you know youtube for sure because going forward there's going to be a lot of action around this and i want to encourage you
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
feel free to use Health Chatter as another vehicle to communicate. And we'll continue to be your partner. There you go. You've got a partner, a number one partner from the plant in order to promote it and hopefully make it work. So thank you both very, very much. And thank you all to our listeners for listening in. And remember to keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
I thought maybe first to give the listening audience a perspective historically on we've had plans and what drove the creation of state plans. And mostly it was first, They were divided up, if I remember right. There was the cardiovascular health plans, and then there was a diabetes plan. But we'll get to the combination in a minute.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
But what really drove the necessity historically of creating the plan? Any perspectives on that? Either one of you can just chime in.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
We'll get to those two great people in just a moment. In the meantime, as always, I like to recognize our illustrious staff that without them, Clarence and I would be lost altogether. We have great researchers that do background research and and give us some good talking points. That includes Maddie Levine-Wolfe, Aaron Collins, and Deandra Howard.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
Yeah. So, Courtney. Yeah. You've been involved in the history, you know, from different angles, frankly. And I always appreciated your really good direct questions that really drove the development of plans. You oftentimes hit these questions, you know, they hit the nail on the head.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
So as you reflect on the previous plans and then maybe morphing into the one that we're dealing with now, where's your head at? How do you think historically things have morphed or changed going forward?
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
Matthew Campbell is our production guru without his logistics. All these shows would not get out to you, the listening audience. So thank you to Matthew. And then finally, Sheridan Nygaard helps us not only with research, but also marketing the show. So thank you to everybody. Then of course, there's my partner in crime in getting health chatter out for all of you. And that's Clarence Jones.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
So one of the, one of the keys to, you know, certainly with anybody with some health education background will say that in order for, frankly, either an individual or in this sense, a community to be involved, it's one thing to show interest. It's another to show ownership and move with it. Okay. So my question is, you know, as I reviewed the plan There are great goals.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
There are great strategies. As you developed them all and were engaged with community representatives, did you get a sense that they're going to run with it? They're really going to embrace it and run with it or not?
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
You know, what we all hope is that they aren't just phrases on a piece of paper, but they're really something that people and communities, organizations can really get engaged with and excited about. Did you get that sense?
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
Yeah. Yeah. So, all right. Um, you know, we're talking, you know, to our audience out here, we're talking with two epidemiologists here, you know, who have a strong, shall we say data, strong in inquisitive Sherlock Holmes types of minds. Okay. So I'll be honest with you that the situation in the state of Minnesota isn't great. You know, it was reported in the plan that
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
Clarence and I go back a long ways. He's a great community health organizer and professional. And I really appreciate his insights. I've learned a lot from him. Whoa, all these shows that we've done. So with that, let's get on to, oh, and by the way, we have a good partnership, right? With Human Partnership, who actually does some sponsoring of this show.
Health Chatter
2035 Minnesota Cardiovascular and Diabetes Health State Plan
correct me if I'm wrong, that there were over 8,500 residents that died from cardiovascular disease, 2,400 around that that died from stroke, 1,500 died from complications of diabetes. So, you know, woe the years that certainly I was involved in the arena. The question that remains is, is from an epidemiological standpoint, are things getting better? Are things getting worse?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Because that's what it was all about. I mean, if you're not there for that, I mean, what was your public health career all about? Right. But it was intense. You know, none of us at our age ever lived through something like that before. All we could do is go based on history of what happened like in 1918 with the flu. So here's a couple of other questions I have. How do you balance?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
And this has always been a kind of an issue. How do you balance the avenues of medicine? with the avenues of public health as a leader on the public health side of the equation. Because there's always that integration that needs to be done and that collaboration that needs to be done. But oftentimes they're in their own ways. How did you deal with that?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's show is going to be a really great show. Actually, all our shows are great, but this takes it to another level. On public health leadership, past, present, and future, we have an illustrious guest with us today, Jan Malcolm. I'll get into her logistics in a minute. I want to thank our crew. As I always do without them, we would not
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
You can check out their website at humanpartnership.com.org. I always say com, don't I?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
As you think about it going forward, it seems to me that what COVID provided us, maybe there's a silver lining in it, is a quick opportunity for lessons learned. But we have to act on those lessons learned. We have to somehow or other coalesce those lessons so that, frankly, quickly, so that we can take advantage of them before we forget what they are.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
And then another thing happens, and then, oh, my God, then we're in the same ballpark again.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
.org, okay. But they're a great, great organization, and many thanks to them. So today, everybody, Jan Malcolm. Jan and I go back a long ways. I remember, Jan, when you were at Health Partners. So that really goes back a way. But it's been a great collegial relationship these years. We've seen a lot of things come and go in public health and in medicine. Jan's had over 40 years of public service
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Yeah. Clarence, and then I want to talk about chronic disease. Go ahead.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
and continues to have a great positive influence. She's gonna be leading up or maybe in the midst of leading up an initiative to address the issues of health sciences at the University of Minnesota. And I think that group has got kind of a deadline of what January to get your decisions made. So Jan, Jan is leading that effort, so thank you for that.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
You know, it's interesting. I remember, you know, one that inspired me was C. Everett Koop. He was another, you know, a Surgeon General. And I remember distinctly, I was at a presentation that he gave and somebody asked him, and we were dealing with smoking and all that kind of stuff. And somebody asked him straight out, what should we be doing? And his answer was,
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
I thought really just, I don't know. That's up for you guys to decide now. Take this torch and run with it. So, you know, it was really inspirational, you know, from somebody who had that much clout to be able to kind of give the work off to you and be, you know, be creative and be good risk takers. So these were good people. Okay, so I want to talk a little bit about chronic disease.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Let's get away from COVID because, you know, while all of this COVID stuff was going on, the pandemic, guess what? We were being affected by the stuff that affects us every day, okay? You know, we still had people, you know, having strokes and people having heart attacks and people suffering from diabetes, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, cancer, et cetera, asthma,
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Yet it appeared to me that certainly at that time, everything was kind of put into a holding pattern for everything else. I mean, we even saw indications of that in the hospitals where people were presenting themselves who were apparently having a stroke or a heart attack. And how did we find out about them?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
From the funeral homes because they didn't get the care they needed and they eventually died. So this is what's always struck me. And this is maybe a question that you can address for us. It's what should a state health department really be responsible for?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
So in the scheme of things here, it's just like, you know, much of the funding for many of the chronic diseases, frankly, doesn't come from the state. It comes from the federal level through grants that we receive there.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
But if those grants never were, if we never got them, frankly, I could tell you from experience, we would have been in trouble as far as dealing with cardiovascular disease for the citizens of the state. So what, literally, how is it, you know, from a leadership standpoint, should... what should we be doing to assure the health of our citizens?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
How should the state be responsible for it financially, et cetera? And the bottom line is what should be the core responsibilities of public health?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
She served under three governors in the state of Minnesota, for those of you who do not live in Minnesota, Governor Ventura, Governor Dayton, and most recently, Governor Tim Walz. And it's also interesting representing two different political parties over that course of time. Wonderful health
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
policy expert that comes with great background, not only in the true government arena, but also she was involved with health partners here in the state of Minnesota, Alina Health. She was the CEO of the Courage Center here in the Twin City area. So, wow. Wow. Great, great career, great career. And recently retired, and I see a smile. So that's great.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
You know, it's interesting. When I was teaching in this arena for a long, long time, um we often discussed you know with with students you know the avenues of medicine the avenues of public health and how how poorly funded public health has been um and and it can and then i can't tell you that was you know 30 years ago we were we were we were talking about there were more um
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
And it's still, and I often said, I remember speaking to students and saying, you know what, public health isn't as sexy as medicine. You know, when somebody goes in and they're sick, and they're really sick, and somebody fixes them.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
That's pretty sexy. You know, that's pretty cool. You know, okay. But what, okay, now what do you do in public health? Well, we never could communicate it very clearly exactly what we were doing. Prevention is two kind of big picture stuff that people can't get their heads around as well. And that's still with us. That concept is still with us. Clarence, go ahead.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
So Jan, thank you so much for being part of Health Chatter. And really, this is a chat. And we're going to be focusing on the concept of leadership. And it's probably easier, I'm hoping it's easier, to reflect on it than to talk about it when you're in the midst of it, okay? If you get my drift. I do. You understand. So, all right. So, let's start out this way. Health leadership overall.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
You know, it's interesting, you know, we're I think today or tomorrow the state is going to be publicly getting out their, their plan for cardiovascular disease and diabetes, their state plan. And one of the things that kind of slowed up the process was this whole idea of community engagement. Okay. So it, it turned out it was easy for communities to identify what they wanted. On the other hand,
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
getting them engaged in working with the strategy, ownership of the strategy. It's not just identifying what it is, it's like how it is, can we accomplish it together? And if you own it as a community and a good leaders in the communities understand that, then more action can come from that and hopefully better results.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
One thing, Jan, I wanted to reflect on for you is, as we're talking about plans, is, and I'm sure you're aware of it, healthy people, the objectives for the nation, 2030. Okay, so one of our dear colleagues, Nico Prank, was one of the co-chairs in developing the national objectives for the nation. How was it leading the health departments Were we engaged in that or are we engaged in it?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Or is it just a function of being aware that these objectives exist and hopefully whatever work that we do at the state can complement that? So how is it that we embraced the objectives for the nation?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
So Jan, all right. So, all right. So now you've retired from, from the health department. Let's talk about just for, you know, maybe the final thoughts here. Knowledge transferred. How do you transfer your knowledge as a leader to a new leader? Or maybe not. Is it just an assumption that, okay, somebody else is going to be appointed, you know, in this case, commissioner. And thank you very much.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
So, you know, with all the different things that you've been involved with, give us your perspective on it. What, as, you know, as somebody who's led a lot of different things, but Truly, what is your perspective on leadership and health from all the different things you've been involved with?
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Yeah. You know, I, I'm sure she knows that, you know, you're, you're as close as a phone call away. Oh yeah.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Right. It's just like, help, help me out here, Jan. It's kind of like final thoughts, Clarence.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
You know, Jan, it feels as though in many ways, we've shared a lot of history together. You know, we've gone down, you know, perhaps different public health paths, but it's always been complimentary. You know, like you were president of the Minnesota Public Health Association, as was I. And those are dear, dear colleagues that you can always count on for insight and encouragement.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
One thing I can say from my perspective to you is you always provided, whether or not you realized it or not, either directly or even indirectly encouragement to me as a colleague. And I greatly, greatly appreciate that. I I've come to realize that perhaps that is the ultimate form of leadership, is providing constant encouragement, trust with one another.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Like I always knew that if I'd get in contact with you, I'd hear from you at one point or another, I'd hear back from you or vice versa. Or if I needed insight from you or vice versa, we could get it from one another. And to me, that supersedes everything. And I want to really, really thank you as a colleague in the healthcare area for that.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Yeah. We all know how to give each other a good hug when we need it. And so thank you. So thank you for a perspective on leadership today for our listening audience. We've got many, many great shows coming up.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Our next show that we'll be doing ironically is on the new state plan for cardiovascular disease and diabetes, which will lend itself very, very nicely and compliment this show very nicely going forward. So for all of you out in listening land, Keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Be as successful as we have been. I believe this is our 66, 65, 66 show. So it's going going strong. Maddie Levine, Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard. and Sheridan Nygaard all do are responsible for getting some background research together and great talking points for both Clarence and I. So thank you to you two. Sheridan also helps us with our marketing.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
I'll tell you, when you said authenticity, that really rings a bell. It really, really does. You really have to embrace that in order for you to move ahead properly in the healthcare field. I will tell you this now. I'll let Clarence chime in. I saw you speak many, many times in many, many different situations.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
And it always struck me, you as a leader, I always had this sense that you were listening ever so carefully, even in an open forum, listening ever so carefully. And getting that sense of appreciating the other point of view, which I think is an incredible leadership attribute. You don't have to agree with it.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
And then Matthew Campbell is our tech guru who takes care of everything technical to make sure that these shows get out to you, the listening public. So many, many thanks to you. You're the best team ever. And then, of course, Clarence Jones is my great colleague in this endeavor. We've been having a lot of fun doing this.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
but you can appreciate at least their perspective. And then hopefully from that go forward. The one thing I can say is that I don't care what side of the aisle you're on or whether or not you agree or you disagree with people. The bottom line is we all want to be healthy. And so that's something that we all carry. Clarence, go ahead.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
He comes with a really good breadth of background in community health, and I greatly appreciate your insights and perspectives. It's a wonderful partnership, and I really appreciate it. And then, of course, there's H-U-E-M-A-N Partnership, which is a community endeavor focusing on health-related issues for all of us, actually, and we hope that All of us can listen to their insights.
Health Chatter
Public Health Leadership
Thank you. No, it's interesting. During COVID, you know, I'll be honest, I was considering, you know, retiring before that hit. And then when it hit, you know, as a public health professional, and by the way, I can probably say that this is true for a lot of people, certainly at the health department. they put off retiring or they put off this or that so that they knew that they could help.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Correct. You know, so, you know, to your point, you know, Clarence, we discussed that Everybody deals with death differently. It can be in thought. It can be in tears. It can be going for a walk. It can be just about anything. And I think what we all need to realize is just that. Everybody deals with it differently. I'll give you a for instance.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
When my father passed away, I remember picking my aunt up at the airport, his sister. And the minute she got in the car, she said to me, I need to see him. my father passed away, which really struck me as strange, really strange. So I said, okay. And I drove her straight to the funeral home where he was lying in a casket. And she went in, she was in for about five minutes
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
came out and said directly to me, okay, now we can go. So that was her way of dealing with it. It was a sense of closure, I guess, whatever, but nothing should be judged when it comes to this stuff.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Right. That's how you feel. And that's great. So, okay. Let's talk about chronic and acute. Okay. So some people many people have chronic health conditions. Pick one. Cancer, just for argument's sake here. And they're dying from cancer.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
And what happens, good, bad, or different, I have no way of judging this, but good, bad, or different, for the family, let's just talk about the family, for somebody who's dying with a chronic
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
disease there's a a readiness factor that plays out okay in other words over the long period of time whatever that period of time is when this person is is dying um the family has a chance to um accept it okay and um And when it happens, it's not, shall we say, unexpected. OK, in that sense. All right. All right. Not that it's not sad. Don't get me wrong.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's show is life lessons about death, which is kind of the opposite of health, I guess. But it's part of the health conversation for sure. And Clarence and I have some great perspectives that we're going to be talking to you about today. So stay tuned for that.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
And it's just that you have had more time to, quote, prepare.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Then there's the other side, a chronic illness. excuse me, an acute condition where somebody dies, you know, suddenly from a heart attack. And boom, it's like, you know, it's the shock that comes with that. Okay. However, you know, there are pros and cons to both sides.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Yeah, and it's to get everybody thinking. And, you know, ironically... Health is, you know, health and death go together. Okay. So, and, you know, it's interesting, too, as you get older and we as human beings live longer than we did certainly in the past, it takes on different angles. And we'll get into that. All right. So... Boy, how do we get started on this? All right. So here you go.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Okay, somebody dies quickly, done, let's move on. Somebody who's had a chronic disease and it's lingering a long time has stressful aspects for the families. So, you know, I'm sure you've witnessed that, Clarence.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Just a simple hug. is something that is quite meaningful. Let me tell you about something. I won't mention names. I went out with a very, very dear friend of mine yesterday for lunch, and His father recently passed away. And, you know, I told him that we were going to be doing this show today. And I said to him, I said, you know, it's interesting.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
As I think about it, it's like I didn't know his father really well. I knew him, but not closely by any stretch of the imagination. So when we went to the funeral, I didn't go there. For his father, who I might have known. Okay. I went for my friend. Right. I went for my friend, which is a different level of support. Okay. You recognize the loss and you are there for your friend. Okay.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
And it's not... it's not as directly connected. So there's that type of dealing with death as well.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Right, right. So some cultures accept death a lot differently than we do here. Right, right. In some cultures, death is absolute happiness, right? I mean, it's just like, you know, and I'm not, frankly, I don't know what it is about our culture where we see it as incredibly sad, tragic, that whole thing. Or on the other side of the equation, there's cultures that are happy as hell. Okay.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
I mean, they aren't happy to say goodbye, obviously, but they're truly happy because they look at these things as reasons for celebrations of life.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Clarence, talk to me about a life lesson that you learned perhaps at a younger age, because we both had issues at younger ages where we had to address death. So let's hear your story.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Yeah, yeah. You know, it's interesting. I got to tell you a good one. So this last weekend, we were with some friends down in Wichita, Kansas, and we were sharing pictures, you know, from our lives together, you know, at weddings and all this kind of stuff. And our friend was pointing to particular individuals on these pictures. And to your point, Sheridan, She said, oh, he's dead. She's dead.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
He's dead. She's dead. You know, all these people are dead. Okay. She didn't say they passed away or they're, she was that, I guess that blunt, how we look at it. Just, she's dead. Okay.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Right, right. Yeah. So here's a couple of things I also want to bring up. Violent death or suicide. Okay, so my wife and I had a very, very dear friend that committed suicide. She literally walked... Yeah, I mean, she was depressed and she walked in front of a bus and got killed. Okay. I remember when we were both at the synagogue, our synagogue was packed, you know, because this was...
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
it was deemed really, really tragic and sad. And I remember my sense was that all these people were gathered around in the synagogue because they were trying to get their head around it. Give me some, give me something that helps me make some sense of this that happened. And, um, Our rabbi was eloquent. He said that for her, her death was like the plague of darkness.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
It was so dark for her that when she put her hand in front of her face, she could not see it. It was that dark. And you know what? That did it for me. That helped explain, give me some reason or explanation for it that I carried with me to this day. When people get that desperate, Sometimes things are so dark for them that they can't see the hand in front of their face. So that's suicide.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Then there's violent death where people get, we've talked about this, shot, gun violence, or in wars. Think about people that have shot somebody in battle. And what they take away from that, whether it's the enemy, it doesn't matter. You're still killing somebody, okay? And think of the sense that they have in their head, the ideas that they carry with them, probably for decades,
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
the rest of their lives. So there's these aspects as well. So Clarence, have you been involved with or known of any kind of what I would call violent deaths or suicidal deaths.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
You know, years ago when I first started in the field of public health, my interest was around prevention. To your point, Clarence, I remember discussing with a dear colleague of mine, Mike Bazerman, we sat in his home for, oh my God, it must've been four hours talking about this. And I told him I was really interested in prevention and health promotion.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
And he said to me, Stan, the ultimate form of prevention is preventing death. Because basically what we're really trying to do by doing all this prevention stuff that we talk about in a variety of our shows is putting off death, right? Putting off sickness. But to your point at the very beginning of the show, Clarence, was guess what? It's final. It's a truism no matter what and for everybody.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
You know, one thing I want to bring up, too, is link with another show that we did on pets. We had Dr. Nicole Heinrich on. And, you know, many of us have pets, you know, dogs, cats, whatever. And, you know, we have to, you know, at some point put our pets down because they're sick. Yeah. And let me tell you. I don't know about you guys, but for me, putting a pet down is absolutely brutal.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
On the other hand, I've taken away from that when I've done it in the past, incredible lessons learned from them. These dear pets that we all have and what they are saying to us non-verbally. And you know what? Those are things that we all can hold dear. They're really incredible, incredible lessons.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Here's the other thing I wanted to bring up is cemeteries and burials. People choose to get buried or taken care of in different ways. You know, whether you're, you could be cremated and some people feel that that's just the way it is. Some people do that because they feel it's more friendly for the environment. Okay. Some people get, get buried in very, very fancy caskets. Okay.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Yeah. I mean, it's just like, okay. And then there are others, like for instance, like my father was buried in a plain pine box. And the idea behind that in Judaism is dust returns to the dust. And that's basically it. Nothing fancy. At that point in a person's life, death, we're all the same. At that point, it doesn't really matter. Some people- I will tell you this, Sam.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Exactly. Exactly. Right, right. You know, the other thing is what people do after somebody dies, you know, like they donate to a particular cause. Okay. Somebody died from cancer. So people donate to the cancer society or the donor's choice. Okay. You know, whatever, but that's a sense of, I guess a little bit of a sense of closure for people.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Flowers is another thing that people deal with. Yeah, sharing it.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
You know, it's interesting. For many years, I worked with youth in a psychiatric setting, actually. And I remember having discussions with kids who were suicidal. And which was, you know, it was quite sad. And, you know, I remember walking away from the hospital once and thinking to myself, wow, a lot of these kids, especially, you know, teenagers have the illusion of immortality.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
And we'll get them. We'll get somebody on the show. That's a great, thank you for bringing that up. That's a great, great angle. One thing you alluded to, Sheridan, that I want to make sure that we cover is, and certainly what I found, maybe Clarence, you have too, is that when somebody passes away in your family, let's just say,
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
I found a lesson that I learned is this, is that there appears to be always somebody that takes the bull by the horn and deals with all the details. Okay, while everybody is kind of mourning or crying or being upset, there's always somebody that has to tend to the details. And I remember, I was that for my father. And then it was about two weeks later that I just lost it. Okay.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
You know, there's a lot of things to be happy about in all the things we do. And maybe one of the lessons from a show like this is that, you know, it's okay to sit back, smell the roses, and appreciate them while you can. Because once you're gone, that's the end of it. That's the end of it.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
You know, I'll tell you, Clarence, for the years that we've known each other. Yeah. I don't know how many shows it would be for me to just list out. all the different things that I've learned from you, okay, as a dear colleague and friend, that you've brought so many different perspectives to the conversation. And I don't know how to say how much I appreciate that.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
OK, it's not going to happen to me. You know, I got many, many years in front of me, et cetera, et cetera. But yet I remember talking to some of these kids who faced death. They saw death. Somebody dear to them passed away. And then all of a sudden that so-called illusion of immortality that these younger people had was compromised. And it was a wake up call for many of them.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Absolutely. Take advantage of it when you can. Sheridan, thoughts?
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
You know, given that this show is called Health Chatter, that is an ending note on how to be healthier, right? in the lives that we all have. So I wanna really thank all the ideas that have come out today. It was really a good show. And I hope our listening audience appreciate us. And for our listening audience, we've got great shows coming up. Clarence and I recently got together.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
We have a list of over 20 different topics that we're going to be doing for our health chatter. So Keep tuned in. Check out our website, not only the website for Health Chatter, but also Human Partnership, which I failed to mention at the front end of the show. That's one of our, is our major sponsor for Health Chatter. So with that, be happy and keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
We've got a great crew that really drives us in a creative way and professional way, research way. Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard do our background research, along with Sheridan Nygaard, who also does our marketing for us. So thank you to all of you. Then of course we have Matthew Campbell, without his technical expertise, we would be dead in the water. Okay.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
So let me tell you a couple of things. And, you know, Clarence and I kind of share a little bit of this together. I have made a distinction as I've gotten older between a death that is sad and a death that is tragic. And let me give you an illustration. My father passed away when I was 24 years old, okay? And to me, that was, it was devastating. It was sad and tragic, okay? And I remember
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
sitting in the hearse, going to the cemetery. I was sitting next to my uncle and he put his arms around me and he said, Stan, you will have a hole in your heart for the rest of your life, but you will learn how to cope with it. And those words of wisdoms have stuck with me for a long, well, forever, okay?
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Another thing that I learned, and then Clarence, I know you have good stories on this too, was what people say to you. I believe that people, friends, colleagues, family, whatever, when you have lost somebody, they feel compelled to say something like, I'm sorry for your loss.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
Whether that's said right to you in person or even through vehicles that we have now, social media or what have you, sorry for your loss. And I'll be honest with you, for me, that statement, I understand the intent. Don't get me wrong. I understand the intent, but for me, the statement became almost vacuous where it kind of lost its sense of meaning.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
On the other hand, I remember distinctly a very, very dear friend of my father's when my father passed away and he came to visit us at our house. And there were a lot of people in our home at that time. In Judaism, you do this thing called Shiva, which I can talk about later. But he came into the house and all this verbal banter was going on in our home.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
And he came in and I knew this man very, very closely in all he did. was put his hand on my shoulder. He did not say a word, but let me tell you, I can still, to this day, feel his hand on my shoulder. Nothing was said verbally, but that to me stuck with me more than anything. Clarence, so things that you've gone through,
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
No pun intended for this show, but he's got great expertise and thank you to all you guys. You're the best team that we could possibly have. Then of course, the best of all is Clarence. Clarence and I are having a great time doing this together. It's an opportunity that we've, we've taken advantage of that we've wanted to do for a long time is just chat about health.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
You know, and that's a, that's a theme that, um, Dr. Barry Baines talked about when we had him on our show, um, previously on, um, living wills basically is what that's about. So, um, To your point, Sharon, yes, there's a will. In other words, what you really want. And by the way, wills are something that can change over the course of your life. Another is power of attorney.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
In other words, you don't want to leave. It's like when you die, you don't want to leave a headache with everything. And then there's a healthcare directive. And I have a little funny story to tell about that. So my son is an attorney and my daughter is a quality improvement engineer in the healthcare arena. So when Janet and I were putting together all this stuff, if we're both gone,
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
So we talked to my daughter, Anna, and we said, Anna, all right, you want to be power of attorney or what do you want to be? And so she, kiddingly, she says, what the hell do I know about the legal stuff? Abram's the attorney. Let him take care of all that. He can't stand the sight of blood. I'll take care of the health care side of the equation. So that was easy.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
But for our listening audience, it's something that you really should – look at carefully and do. And it's kind of, I guess it's uncomfortable because you're thinking about these things. On the other hand, if you think about it in the positive way of not leaving a headache behind when you pass away is really a gift more than anything.
Health Chatter
Life Lessons About Death
And we've been doing it now for about a year and a half. This will be close to our 60th show. So it's been, Clarence, it's been just a treat, a treat working with you. So thank you, thank you, thank you. All right, so let's get going on today's show. Life Lessons About Death.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
It's a great community health organization that does wonderful things out there, very creative. And I recommend highly that you check out their website at humanpartnership.org and ours as well. at healthchatterpodcast.com. So thank you to everybody. So, all right, let's get this show going. This is kind of an interesting concept. I'll tell everybody a little bit of a story.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
with children and youth. And it's really interesting if you ask children, and we did back then, and youth, about taking care of themselves. For instance, it's good for your heart health or it will prevent cancer or what have you. And I remember the response that I would get from these kids that, wait a minute, I'm not worried about a heart attack and I'm not worried about cancer.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
I'm worried about bad breath and zits on my face right now. But it becomes more of a reality for them if they have a loved one or somebody that perhaps have died. Then they get this aha moment where it kind of kicks in where, oh, this is what people get sick from, or oh, this is what people die from. So it's kind of interesting. Clarence, I've got a question for you.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Coming from the African-American population, And I'm going to link it with another show that we've done on safety, basically, with firearms, etc. Do you sense or have you ever felt that sense of your immortality being compromised because of your safety in a community like gun safety?
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
for instance, it's like, I don't think, you know, do you ever hear younger folk in your community saying things like, geez, I don't think I'm going to live until I'm, you know, 60, if I'm lucky, you know, that type of thing, just by virtue of being exposed to more violence, et cetera.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
When I was working on my master's in public health, I had a very interesting conversation in the home of a colleague of mine, Michael Bazeman, and we were talking about prevention and health promotion.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
It does. Yeah. So, you know, I have a question for all of us. Do any of you have a sense of being scared of dying? Has that ever come across your minds at all?
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Yeah. You know, it's interesting how we as humans immortalize people. So, for instance, one way that we immortalize people is through coins. Think about it. You know, a quarter, you know, has, you know, President Washington on it or a penny has Lincoln on it. A half dollar has Kennedy on it. So we immortalize certain people. It doesn't have to be presidents.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's episode is on the illusion of immortality, which actually links to a lot of the different health aspects that we've talked about on many of our shows. So stay tuned on this. It's going to be an interesting show with many of our crew who will be chiming in as well. We've got a great crew.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
And frankly, the concept of the illusion of immortality really came out of that conversation when Mike said to me, he said, you know, when you really get down to it, when you're talking about prevention, when we all talk about prevention, what are we trying to do? The ultimate form of prevention is really preventing death. And we all know in our heads that that can't be.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
On coins, we immortalize other people as well. Yeah, Sheridan.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Yeah, we have we have different, certainly different methods in order to communicate our our thoughts about health and and. death and dying in our lifespans, et cetera.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Yeah. You know, it's interesting, too, is how we today react to the diseases of our time versus diseases that took place a long time ago. So imagine just for a second, you have this idea of immortality in your head. But you're living in a time where there's a lot of infectious disease going around, like typhoid or malaria or tuberculosis, cholera, diphtheria. COVID.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Yeah, okay, so that's one of our times. Yeah. And then, okay, then you fast forward. And by the way, many of those... diseases that I mentioned, and there are others, were able to be reduced down to that causative agent and we could vaccinate against it. So we provided protection in order to enhance our immortality. Then you fast forward to the diseases of our time,
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
That we're living with, you know, cancer, heart disease, where there isn't, you know, a magic bullet, so to speak. And what we have is things that we try to tell people about. in order to combine, hopefully will be some sort of a vaccination. So you take cholesterol medications or you exercise, but that combined components of these things, we call it the synergistic effect.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
There's many, many variables that are causing the disease. But if you address them all somehow or other, you're getting this new kind of vaccination that will keep you living longer.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Exercise until you're blue in the face or take this medication or that medication will help you. So we're dealing with differences today than we did yesterday.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
But there is that illusion around it that kind of drives us. And also, it drives how we respond to our health, how we take care of our health. and what we do to actually maintain it using various things. So what's interesting is the illusion of immortality or the concept of immortality is embedded in medicine and in public health.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Well, yeah. I mean, you know, it... there's always, um, a creative component to, um, trying to keep us all younger, healthier, uh, live longer. And, um, And, you know, for a lot of us that are, you know, in the public health field or the medical field, we're kind of driven by research behind it all. Okay. Just don't go with it just because somebody says it's, you know, it's good. Okay.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
You know, I was driven by this. I was reading this the other day in the paper. Circadia bugs, you know, these bugs that come out. Yeah. Once every 17 years, they hatch and come out again. And I'm thinking, God, if we were all circadia bugs, just think about that for a second.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
All of a sudden, you come out, you take a look at the world, 17 years later, every 17 years, you come out and you take a look at the world, you say, jeez. what the hell is going on here? It's like, what did I miss by hibernating for so long here? And maybe we should adjust this life cycle that we're on because we can take advantage of some of these things going forward.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Yeah. Which brings me to this point about immortality. Life experiences and our overall experience, whether it be just life experience, work experience, or what have you, and how does it affect your perception of living? What's your sense of that, Clarence, as you've gotten older?
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Yeah, for our listening audience, we did a show on legacy, basically, with Dr. Barry Baines. What's your legacy, and what is it that you want to make sure that you at least share before you leave this world? What you've learned that you think will have impact going forward for your children, your grandchildren, what have you.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Yeah. Yeah. You know, that's interesting. You bring up a good point. It's like we carry on our names. So even if we, even if we're gone, our name is basically immortalized going, going forward one way or, or, or the other to a certain extent. That's what, what cemeteries are about too. You know, when you go to, when you go to a cemetery, you see the names of all these, these, these people.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
The symbol, for instance, the symbol of medicine is called the caduceus, which if any of you have seen it, it's a combination of a staff, like a cane, a staff, and a serpent. The serpent is really the symbol of immortality. And it is embedded not only in the concept of medicine, but public health as well, for instance.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
And, um, It causes you to reflect when you're at a cemetery about, you know, who's there and what did they bring to this world, you know, before they passed on. And we've marked them, you know, with a gravestone or what have you. And it's an interesting concept when you think about that.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
By the way, we aren't the first ones to think about immortality. For instance, the classic of internal medicine that was written by the Yellow Emperor in the 4th century BCE. It's the oldest known treaty written in the Chinese language. In it, the Yellow Emperor wrote, people lived to 100 years.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Now, keep in mind that fourth century, you know, if you live to 100 years, that was a long, long, long, long time. People lived to 100 years and remained active and did not become decrepit. And then a colleague of of his Lao Tzu in the third century wrote, in the happy land that Lao Tzu describes, people were gently following nature without wrangling and strife.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Men and women wandered freely about in company. Marriage plans and betrothals were unknown. And not until the age of 100 did they die And disease and premature death were unknown. So it's like this has been going on a long, long time, this concept of living, just living a long, long time.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
And you'll see pictures of this, if you go to our website, you'll see pictures of this. The first physician, according to Greek legend, was Asclepius. And in the picture that you'll see, you will see the staff, and the serpent that he's holding onto. The staff represents kind of the traveling nature of a physician. And again, the serpent is immortality.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
And, you know, we as human beings are kind of unique, I guess. We have a sense of being able to think about the future, at least think about it, without knowing what the future necessarily will bring. But we also can reflect on the past. Right. Animals, you know, like my dog, they think only in the present. They don't have a sense of future and past. So for them, it's in the past. in the moment.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
And maybe there's something healthy about that, where you just live for right now and just keep going. And perhaps that's why we really embrace our pets, because they have that sense and they bring that to us.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Yeah, yeah. And frankly, we'll be able to chat about this even more when new medical science comes out on certain things. Like if we saw in the paper today, just for argument's sake, that there's an actual vaccination that would prevent cancer, all the different cancers. You take this one shot and that's it. You don't have to worry about cancer anymore. Well, think about that.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
It's like, wow, for how many years have we been worried about cancer and its treatments, et cetera, and disease management? And now all of a sudden, boom, we have the cure. And what implications does that have for our sense of immortality? Last thoughts, Sheridan, anything?
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
You know, it's interesting. I don't see it as as a dash. I see it as kind of a squiggly line that has its ups and downs. And, you know, as you go, maybe it should be a squiggly line. I love that. Between your birth and your death.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
How is it that a physician can help us to live forever? Interestingly enough, he had a daughter, Hygieia, that became the symbol of public health. And she too carries a snake in her hand, a serpent in her hand. Again, the concept of immortality. All embedded historically, and it's all in our minds as we perceive through life. Clarence, some of your initial thoughts about immortality.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
That's a happy note. That's a happy note to end our show with. I'm hoping that this gets everybody thinking a little bit and realizing that There is happiness on your dash or your squiggle line. And if you embrace the happiness, perhaps maybe that's what this is all about. Don't forget Maddie. Don't forget Maddie. Maddie. You there, Maddie?
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Yeah, I did too. It kind of puts it all in perspective a little bit on all the different topics that we cover in Health Chatter. So we hope you, the listening audience, have enjoyed today's episode on the illusion of immortality. We have great shows coming up. Stay tuned and keep connecting with our podcasts. Until then, keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
You know, when you think about, um, Immortality. Again, I think there's a balance that we all kind of keep in our head. One is how we live life, just the process of living. And then at the same time, we kind of balance it with, call it restoration. It's like when you get sick, how is it that you restore yourself so that you can... keep going. And there's that constant balance going going forward.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
We have researchers, Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, and Sheridan Nygaard all do excellent background research for us. Give us some ideas, give Clarence and I some ideas what to talk about on these shows. And also, Sheridan does our marketing, so thank you for that. Then we have Matthew Campbell, who's our production manager.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
You know, for me, I'll tell you, for me, yeah, it really hits you, I think, you know, the concept of immortality is, is struck when you lose somebody. Okay, for the for the, for the first time, or you know, even if it's, for me, you know, like, you know, my father passed away when I was young. And so that created a dent in me for the rest of my life.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
And that also provided kind of a sense of mortality, okay? It's like that idea of, geez, you know, what's next for me? And I don't know if that's true of most people, if immortality or mortality is really addressed for the first time when you lose somebody.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Make sure that the shows come out clearly for all of you. There will be a show typically every Friday. So watch your favorite podcast to check in, your podcast channel. In addition, many thanks goes to Clarence Jones, a great colleague. We have a good time doing this show. And we're learning a lot. So Clarence, thank you. Thank you also to Human Partnership, our sponsor for all of our shows.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
You know, it's interesting. That's called the fountain of youth.
Health Chatter
Illusion of Immortality
Okay. So my sense is, you know, is everything... that is good or is longevity, immortality, connected to just being younger. As we get older, that's not the case. Because there are certain things that are done to extend our lifetime. Sheridan.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Correct. Correct. In the long run. Always. So I want to get to this concept of administrative costs in a second, because in this last legislative session, you know, to the legislature's credit, they said, okay, you know what, we have to get kind of our arms around this a little bit. So they required some reporting mechanisms, and we'll talk about that in a second. But
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Actually, our combined years are probably more, imagine that, more than our guests' years that he's been in the Senate, but we'll get into that in a second. And then Then, of course, our sponsor is Human Partnership, which is a community service organization that services a lot of different populations within our community in the Twin City. Actually, is it statewide clearance? I can't remember.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's episode is on, imagine this, the politics, quote unquote, of health care. I can imagine all of our different subjects that we've talked about up to this point. There's been a political aspect to all of them or a policy aspect. And we'll certainly get into that with our great guests and many of our listeners will know what it is.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
And on our last show, it was interesting. We were talking about mental health and, you know, one of our guests said, you know, it's like a bowl of spaghetti. It's just like, okay. So I asked her, I'm going to ask you the same question only as it relates to what we're talking about today, policy and healthcare. If you're going to take out one noodle. Oh,
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
or two noodles out of this bowl of spaghetti that seems to be getting more and more complicated than easier. And you've been around the block for a few times and had many, many discussions on this. What are the one, two, three noodles that you would pull out of the bowl to really get us on the right track? Because God knows, I personally don't think we are on the right track.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Is it state of Minnesota? Okay, sorry about that. State of Minnesota, great partner. And it helped us with many of the logistics and background expenses as it relates to HealthShatter. So thank you very much to Human Partnership. You can look them up. It's on our website, healthshatterpodcast.com. And there's a link to Human Partnership for their website as well. So thank you to all.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Today, we're going to be talking about the politics of healthcare, and we have a really, really fine guest with us, Senator John Marty, who I'll tell you, I've known his name for a long, long time. He's been in the Senate for, oh my goodness, since what, since 1987? 1987, yeah. Wow. Okay, so let's see if I can do the math in my head. That's like 36 years ago.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
So, all right. We've, we've got seemingly, we've got, we've got these things that are kind of creating angst in, in the system, good, bad, and, and, and whatever. So, for instance, administrative costs overall are absolutely crazy. I'll give you a simple illustration. I had to go in for a visit, a medical visit recently, and I got a bill. Okay, I have insurance and all that kind of stuff.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
I get a bill from the providers. Okay. On the other hand, I'm thinking, oh, wait a minute now. This is covered for my insurance. Okay. So guess what? I, as the patient, was put in the middle of an administrative nightmare, on one hand, dealing with the provider, on the other hand, dealing with the insurance, and say, excuse me, Aren't you guys talking here?
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Isn't that what you're being supposedly paid to do? But the system is broken. All right. So let's talk about administrative things. One sec. And then also. The advantages that technology has also provided for us. Let me give you a for instance.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Years ago, frankly, not that many years ago, when you had a knee replacement, you were probably going to be in the hospital for a minimum of three, four, five days. Now you can have your knee replaced and actually go home, believe it or not, the same day. Okay, so from a technology perspective and a procedural perspective, things have gotten better.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
that are there, people are hospitalized less, so there is cost savings there. But all right, so on one hand, technology has grown. On the other hand, it's kind of like a double-edged sword. We're also paying for that incredible technology these days. All right, reflect on, in this legislative session that just closed up,
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
The, all the different reports that you guys recommended that for instance, the health department does or should be doing or will be doing to address administrative issues, addressing whether or not we at least maybe in the state of Minnesota, should be addressing the concept of maybe single payer. So reports that you're asking for.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Some of them have a shorter timeframe, 20, 25, 26, or what have you. Is this all in line, Senator Marty, with where you hope useful information will lead to some of the ideas that you're trying or have tried all these years to get us on the right track with.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
And I will tell you this, I've been in healthcare a long time and it's not hard to notice the different areas that Senator Marty has been involved with, especially around healthcare. And I can honestly say that I can't think of one particular policy that I was on the other side of the perspective. when it comes to where he was coming from.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Administrative reports, I guess, is what we're looking at here.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Didn't they call it something like unproductive administrative?
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
He's a fine, fine Senator who, in my estimation, really understands the ins and outs of what we're trying to accomplish in the healthcare arena and has done it with such grace and humility. And I must say, I would really call you a statesman when it comes to dealing with, certainly with the healthcare issues. You do try to work with as many people as possible.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
So let me ask, you know, there's that blob of spaghetti for sure. Here's something that's kind of nagged at me. I was at the health department heading up the cardiovascular unit for many, many years. And, you know, if, and I'll go on record as saying this, I probably couldn't have gone on record if I was still at the health department. I can go on record now.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
If we had not received funding from the Centers for Disease Control to address preventive oriented aspects in healthcare, frankly, our whole unit at the health department would have gone away, which is really, when you think about that, excuse me, a state health department not having a cardiovascular health unit or a diabetes unit, or I can go on and on and on and on.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
It's like, okay, here's my question for you. based on all your years in the Senate, where are you guys coming from? I mean, as far as the state putting in their fair share to address community health oriented initiatives in order, and this gets to, you know, kind of the bottom line, if we prevent, hopefully we can keep a lot of people out of health care, which will keep health care costs down.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
But where's the state's initiatives in order to, in this case, meet CDC even halfway? Or for that matter- I would even argue this. It's like, okay, would Senator Marty put out a bill that says, look, if the state health department is not successful in getting their funding from CDC to address diabetes for our citizens, our state will kick in.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Our state will assure that these kinds of prevention-oriented chronic disease initiatives that a lot of people are dying from and getting sick from, the state will assure that these things would go forward. So I'm asking the question on the prevention aspects in order to address health care costs.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
And I've greatly, greatly appreciated your service, woe these years. So thank you for being with us. My pleasure. So, all right. Policy and health. Okay. Where do we start? So, you know, maybe the best way to get this going is, okay, so you've been in the Senate a long time. You've seen the ups and downs and sideways of health policy.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Right. Right. You know, I, it's interesting. I, I remember testifying in front of a health committee as the, the head of the cardiovascular unit. And I was, I was laying out specifically, you know, what the data is saying. Oh, I could do it county by county. Okay. Population by population. And, and,
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
basically saying, excuse me, we've got a cardiovascular disaster going on here in the state of Minnesota. People are dying from heart attacks and strokes. And I remember one of the people in the committee asked me, well, what do you recommend, Dr. Shanling? And I said, what I recommend is that the state, you know, meet us halfway to help out. How would you go about doing that?
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
And I turned it around to them. I said, that's for you guys to decide. Come on. It never happened. But those are the things that we have. Frankly, where you're at, where you're dealing with is the healthcare delivery system, okay?
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
So Aaron, you notice here county by county data for health doesn't exist. Actually it does. We have county by county breakdowns of data, certainly by death and also by condition. Erin, you're a constituent of Senator Marty, so there's a connection there. So what might you wanna ask your Senator as it relates to all this health stuff that we've been talking about?
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Oh, that's true. That's true. Yeah. It's through the health department. Yeah. Yeah.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
So give us a perspective overall, historically, on where you think things were where we are now, and then maybe a little bit of a vision on where you hope to go. So past, present, and future.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
So what what I can promise Clarence and I can promise is that you can use health chatter as as a vehicle to to get some of your ideas and and. and thoughts out to the public. It's another venue through podcasts that absolutely, um, we're open to that.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
And, and we, and we invite you to, to, to use that, use this vehicle just for that, including this particular podcast, which, you know, we could go on and on about, about policy. My hope Clarence, I'm sure yours as well is, um, We're all carrying the torch to try to make it better.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
I think what we're all a little frustrated about is how fast those changes in the right direction are happening or should happen. And perhaps if we become more aware, the public becomes more aware of it, even through venues such as this, things will happen a little quicker. Clarence.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Absolutely. Well, I'll tell you, we could keep going on and on. I truly thank you for one word here, dedication. I mean, you've been dedicated to this arena all these years. And I know that you're committed to make it work. And I really, really do want to thank you for your insights and commitment to this subject. It's an important one.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
And obviously, it's important related to all the different subjects that we do here on Health Chatter. So thank you for being with us today, John, Marty, Senator Marty. It's been an absolute pleasure. pleasure.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
For our listening audience, our next show, we're going to be addressing the issue of asthma, which is ironically kind of timely because we're also dealing with issues in our atmosphere from all the smoke that's coming down from the fires in Canada. And we're seeing an increase of patients presenting themselves into the hospital with asthma oriented conditions. So it's very, very timely.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
So I appreciate that. Senator Marty, remember, We always would love to have you come back. And we probably will, given some of your ideas for the next legislative session. For those of you in our listening audience, keep health chatting always.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
I'll keep it a secret for one more minute. So stay tuned. We have a great background crew. as part of our Health Chatter podcast. Our research crew involves Maddie Levine-Wolfe, Aaron Collins, and Deandra Howard. They do great background research and provide Clarence and I with some great talking points to ask and bring up with our guests. So thank you to them.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
Our production manager is Matthew Campbell. He takes care of all the logistics. of getting our shows out to you, including putting a little music on before and after each show. It's really kind of nice stuff. So listen in on him. And he also has an announcement at the end of each of our podcasts that you should listen in on.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
And then our marketing specialist is Sheridan Nygaard that helps us get the word out about health chatter in creative ways. So thank you to all of you. Clarence Jones, there are no words to describe you. You're a great colleague, friend, co-host. And we just got done saying it's been really educational just for us too, even though we've been in this healthcare field for many, many years together.
Health Chatter
The Politics of Health Care
You know, Clarence, I'll get to you in a sec. I can't help but agree with you. It's like the analogy that you use with education. It's just like everybody knows that your kids can get educated. Yes, are there some bad apples over here and bad apples over here? Yes. But the bottom line is you can get it. For many people, when you're talking about health care, that isn't the case. And that's...
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
I thought the chat show up and I lost my concentration in the screen.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
Let me back you up a step. Sure. People talk about mental health. Some people talk about behavioral health.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
A little bit higher in females and males.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Clinical by Population & Age
There are rate limiting steps for all three of those, you know?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
So for our listening audience, the West Bank is the other side of the Mississippi River from where the University of Minnesota Hospital and Emergency Department is. And there's a hospital on the other side of the river that has psychiatric units there. But as Jeff is saying, they're filled up all the time. So, all right. Does this...
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
indicate that emergency physicians like yourself will eventually have to be trained in mental health issues? Or do you just think that this is kind of a blip in what's been going on and things will calm down to where you get back to kind of a level of normalcy?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
And then, of course, there's Human Partnership, which is our sponsor for Health Chatter, community organization involved in a lot of different health-related issues to get honest, good information out to you out in the public. and also deal with issues that are at high risk for a variety of different population groups. So thank you for them.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Essentially, we're doing a total of four shows on mental health that kind of go around our show right here. And so it'll be really interesting to interconnect the subject matters. Clarence.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. And today's topic is emergency room issues, especially dealing with the pediatric age group. We have a great guest. and a great friend who I'll get into in just a second. We have a wonderful staff that helps us get these shows out to you in a successful way.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Why do they only come to an emergency department? Isn't there any other avenue?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
So, all right, let's kind of angle this a little bit. First of all, what do you recommend? That's number one. And then how might that lead into policy changes or, I don't know, legislation or something that can help here?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
You could check out both of our webcasts, or our, excuse me, our podcast on healthshatterpodcast.com. You can also check out Human Partnership and their Their information is also available on our website. So thank you to everybody. So let's get going. Today, we're talking about pediatric ER concerns.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
So are any of you and your colleagues, you know, talking policy changes now? So give me a for instance.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Yeah, and it's one thing, the money, it's another thing, the appropriateness of care, you know?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
I have a great colleague and friend and neighbor who actually lives right across the alley from where I live in South Minneapolis, And that's Dr. Jeff Lewis. So Jeff is Associate Professor, Department of Pediatrics, Division Director of Pediatric Emergency Medicine at the University of Minnesota.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Yeah, consistency of care becomes a problem. So let me ask you, okay, so obviously, you know, a variable in all of this are the costs. So, all right. So kid has dropped off at the emergency. Who's paying for this? I mean, is it coming?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Wow. Wow. So it's kind of... It's beneficial for the health insurance companies. Yeah, because they don't have to dish out any money. Okay.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
it's mind-boggling. What I would love to do is have a follow-up on just this discussion for emergency room because I want to talk about some other things here with you. But a follow-up to see, okay, where are things? Are things getting better? Is there some legislation? Are they opening up office buildings that are empty now because everybody is telecommuting?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
I don't think it's for a lack of space. I think it might be a lack of professionals. And also costs, but that's where legislation could come in to help maybe figure out places and help to hire people. But anyway, a lot to be determined here, but I just have to underscore this, that this is troubling and sad. and sad, and I truly hope that there will be some solutions sooner than later.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
So, all right, let's talk about the ER in general. You've been an emergency room physician for many years now. What are the most common things that you see, especially for kids?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Got his background at Loyola University in Chicago, residency in Maryland, University of Maryland Fellowship. And at the Children's Hospital in Pennsylvania. So he's been around the country a little bit, getting some useful insights. He's very, very insightful. I must say that as far as ER issues are concerned. And I'll tell you a quick story. I was sitting right next to Jeff just a few weeks ago.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
So the total ER has how many staff, including nurses, et cetera? Yeah.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
So, all right. So, you know, I, I recall, you know, during when COVID was at its height certainly in the, in the cardiovascular realm that I was involved with we were seeing, we were not seeing patients in the ER because people were afraid to go in and to the ER for whatever emergency situation they may have because they figured it would only get more complicated. Did you see that as well?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
In other words, pediatric patients that probably should have shown up in the ER but didn't because of an extenuating circumstance like COVID?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
just an hour yeah right right right yeah so they're trying to be a little bit more proactive on one end right but we've definitely seen that a subset of kids who were presenting pretty late who were really really sick yeah yeah okay let's talk a little bit more about seasonal variations um Okay, so all of a sudden spring hits and summer hits.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
And I'm assuming, but you correct me if I'm wrong, that you see more falls, you see more broken bones, because kids are on bicycles, et cetera, et cetera. Talk to me about that.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
So what surprises you? In your career, what are some of the cases that have, in the emergency room, that have surprised you?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
at a fundraiser and we were just chatting away and I said, so how are things in the ER? And then he proceeded to tell me about some real issues that are hitting the scene, which we'll get into. So I said, Jeff, you gotta be on health chatter. He said, let's do it. So here we are today. So Jeff, thanks for being with us. It's a pleasure, pleasure being with us. So let's start out.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Yeah. Well, interesting. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So, all right. So let's, let's talk about screening for potential abuse. So I'm going to tell a quick story here. When, when our son was, was young, really quite young, he was bouncing up and down on, on our bed. And anyway, make a long story short, he fell literally on the bed, but
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
it turns out that he twisted his leg a certain way and boom, he had like a hairline stress fracture. So we brought him in because, et cetera, into the emergency department. And I remember distinctly, I believe it was a physician or a nurse, I can't remember at the time, but asked me to come into a different room And they asked me what the story was, you know, how, how this happened.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
It turns out that they also did the exact same thing with, with my wife to see, to make sure that our stories coincided. Okay. They were, they were right. Okay, so tell me, and I assume that they were, you know, at the time they were looking to see, okay, what's going on here? What do you do today? Similar type of thing?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
You know, for years and years, I worked with Dr. Robert Tanbenso, who is now passed on, but he was an international expert in the area of child abuse and neglect. And we testified in particular child abuse cases. And one of the classics that I remember distinctly that Robert was asked about was a child who fell down the stairs
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
okay, was treated for a, at that time, a broken rib, which is basically he can't do much. But anyway, to make a long story short, this child had four broken ribs. And the telltale sign for abuse is they were all at different stages of healing.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Okay. So, you know, obviously if you fall down, we're all going to be fractured the same way. So, you know, these are, these are types of things that, that are looked for. And unfortunately some, you know, physicians are often called in to testify on these types of cases. Okay. So drug use, what percentage of your kids that you see are involved in some kind of drug use? of some sort.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
with the issue that really kind of brought this to the forefront. And that's mainly, it's kind of around two major issues that are facing the ER, especially for kids, and that's mental health. And also, ironically, kind of, and curiously, residential placement. So take it from there, Jeff. Maybe you can kind of tee it up and then we can talk about it.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Absolutely, absolutely. So, all right. And then the other thing is obviously when people present themselves into the ER, you don't turn them away. I mean, the first thing you do, you don't necessarily check for insurance. If there's some kind of a level of seriousness, you get them in and care for them, correct?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Yeah, yeah. It's sad. On the other hand, For all of us, we have to thank physicians like you and departments like you work in for the type of care that you provide on an emergency basis. And we all face emergencies of some sort or another. And knowing that the care is available is the key message, is the real, real key message.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
And so, you know, many, many thanks to all the emergency room physicians and staff, and especially during the stressful situations that I know you were facing when COVID And that just was a variable that you didn't want to have to deal with, but it complicated a lot of care. So thank you very much. And thank you for bringing all of this to our attention. We greatly, greatly appreciate it.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
We reserve the right, Jeff, to bring you back on, even with a couple of your colleagues to talk about, okay, where are things now? Okay, are things better? Have policies been implemented? Has there been some legislation that has helped you? Has there been some finances that have been put into the system that can help ease things up? Whatever it is, let us know and we can get you.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
And you can also use this podcast. to help message the problem out there. So thank you. To our listening audience, we have more shows coming up on mental health issues with Dr. Mike Trangle from Health Partners. Those will be shows coming up next. It's kind of a quadfectra of shows on mental health issues. because mental health in and of itself is such a huge, huge issue.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
So this is disturbing. I mean, really. I mean, it's just like when we first discussed it, it's just like, what? First of all, is this something relatively new?
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Maddie Levine-Wolfe and Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard and Sheridan Nygaard all do our background research for us on all our various topics. Sheridan also helps us with marketing. And also there's Matthew Campbell, who's our production manager, who really puts all the details to the show, adds a little bit of music, edits everything and gets it out to you, the listening audience.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
All right, so- You know, it's, you know, for most of us, you would think of an ER for emergency treatment, but not, I guess, residential placement, right? So let me, I mean, you know, that's what we go to the ER for, you know, whatever, a broken bone, you know, chest pain, whatever it may be. Respiratory distress, you name it.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
Okay, so now we're dealing with mental health issues where they aren't necessarily, if I'm reading it right, have to be treated. They just have to be housed.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
So thank you to you guys. You are second to none. And then of course, there's Clarence Jones, my co-host for Health Chatter. We've been doing this for a while. We're having great, great time. I was talking to him the other day and he says, God, Stan, I think we're overachievers on this podcast.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
He said, when we first started out, we were thinking about doing a show monthly and we're getting shows out weekly, which is really, really good. It also indicates that we aren't devoid of topics in healthcare, if you can imagine that. Clarence, second to none, you're the best. So thanks for being involved with us.
Health Chatter
Pediatric ER Concerns
So Jeff, what's the, okay. You know, I, I, I'm still kind of overwhelmed by this as I can imagine, only you guys are, but, um, what's the average stay for a kid that, that comes into your, your ED and has to stay there.
Health Chatter
Motivation
You get on a scale to weigh yourself. Okay, so it provides you with, information. And then are you motivated? Are you motivated to, you know, geez, you know, I weighed, you know, you know, five more pounds than I did last week. Whoa. Or you say, okay, whatever, you know, you know, for some people, you know, it does motivate them to change.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Or the same thing, same thing with, you know, Clarence, you and I have been involved with, you know, helping people take their blood pressure. Okay, for some people, you know, if they get their blood pressure and it's, you know, it's 200 over 100, you know, it could be a wake-up call. For other people that say, okay, it's 200 over 100 today. I'll measure it tomorrow and it'll be down.
Health Chatter
Motivation
And I will tell you that he definitely motivates me. Because he'll give you these forlorn eyes as if to say, excuse me, Stan, it's time to go for our walk. And so he motivates me. It's also really interesting, I think, you know, and I've noticed this, that animals somehow or other have this innate motivation in them, okay? They want to do all this stuff.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Right. You know, it's just like you put a piece of apple pie in front of you. Do you feel guilty? Yeah. Do you feel guilty? Yeah. If somebody is going to ask me, the answer is no, you know, because I enjoy a piece of apple pie every once in a while. And you know what? I don't want my enjoyment to be affected by guilt. You know, I mean, there's a balance. You know, it's okay.
Health Chatter
Motivation
You know, have a piece of apple pie every once in a while. It's nothing going to end the world. You know, so sharing it. Okay. So, you know, Clarence and I always call ourselves kind of the old farts. But, you know, and thankfully we have a crew that's younger so we can get the perspective or help us to remember. So I'm going to ask you a simple question. What motivates you about your health?
Health Chatter
Motivation
I'm not so sure that we as humans want to do it all. But anyway... The other thing I think is sometimes we get scared into being motivated.
Health Chatter
Motivation
You know, it's interesting when you talk to patients. So I talk to, you know, orthopedic patients. And it's interesting. I'll ask them from time to time, what are you hoping for? One patient will tell me to be pain free. Okay. Actually, that's frankly a pretty common response. Another patient will say to be able to play pickleball. Or go hiking.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Yeah. And by the way, I don't follow up the answer for being pain-free with another question, okay? Maybe I should, but their mind isn't there yet. They just want to be pain-free first and foremost. Then I'll worry about what I can do. All right. after where other people are, are assuming that they'll be pain free and are taking it that one step further already.
Health Chatter
Motivation
So they're, they're motivated by that being able to climb a mountain or, you know, go water skiing or whatever it is that they, they, they want to do. So it really is a different, and by the way, it's also different as you get older.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Correct. And there's probably as many lanes as there are people on earth, you know, when you really get down to it. Let's talk about a little bit about cultural motivation. Okay. So, and, you know, Clarence, you and I can certainly probably share it too. We could talk about, you know, we're brought up in certain cultures or certain religions or what have you.
Health Chatter
Motivation
And we eat, for instance, a certain way. All right. We're motivated by cultural meals, I guess. Does that ring true that we are motivated by that?
Health Chatter
Motivation
Yeah. You know, it's, you know, I, you know, I think you mean holidays. Okay. So, you know, Thanksgiving is coming up. Okay. You know, there's almost a, you know, a given that everybody's going to eat differently than they do, you know, throughout the rest of the year. Okay. There's going to be this big meal, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Health Chatter
Motivation
That's probably true. So, all right. So let me tell you a quick story here. So I remember, you know, I'll talk about seatbelts for just a moment. All right. God, I think I might have been like 22 or so, 22 or 23 years old. And I got into a car accident. Somebody rear-ended me, and I was pushed into a car in front of me. So the whole car was totaled, the whole nine yards. And everybody was okay.
Health Chatter
Motivation
I know. I know. But I'm saying turkey. They got to have turkey. Yeah, I know. But some people don't, you know. And there's almost a thing in my head that, okay, Stan, just watch it a little bit. Everything in moderation here. That's what motivates me on that type of thing. Let's talk about... religion oriented motivation. Okay.
Health Chatter
Motivation
You know, people, people have a want, not everybody, but a lot of people are motivated by spirituality, no matter what religion you, you, you practice. They're motivated by that. What motivates people in that arena? What is it? I mean, I can kind of.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Yeah. So here's the other things. Like some people are motivated to travel.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Okay. Go traveling. All right. And other people, you know, and I have some friends that they like to be here. They don't like, you know, they don't like to deal with all the airport stuff. And they don't want to go overseas because of what situations are happening in the world. And it's just like, oh, God, what if you miss your flight? And they don't want to deal with that kind of stress.
Health Chatter
Motivation
They perceive that as stressful. What they'd rather do is, if they happen to be working, is just stop working and do other things around here as opposed to going abroad.
Health Chatter
Motivation
But, truth be told, I was not wearing my seatbelt. Okay? Okay. Now, from that point on, I was motivated, scared maybe. And from that point on, I've worn my seatbelt, you know, 100% of the time, whenever I'm in a car. I don't care if I'm driving or a passenger or what have you. So notice I was, there was a situation that motivated me. Clarence, what do you got? You got anything similar?
Health Chatter
Motivation
You know, I have, for those of us who have been in the health field, either have been or still are, I believe that we are, for the positions that we've been in, I think we're motivated by the idea of encouragement. We like to be able to encourage people people to be healthier through a variety of different ways.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Or we care about people so that they can lead the type of life, for instance, Sheridan, that you're talking about for younger people. And if by chance, a medical condition compromises that. So let's just say, God forbid, Sheridan, today you found out that you have something, cancer, diabetes, whatever, okay? Or even people at your age having like a stroke.
Health Chatter
Motivation
How does that compromise what you just said, what you really want to be able to do in life and how is it that we as healthcare professionals, hopefully if you're able to live through the particular condition, how is it that we can encourage you to assume that, that you can get that even though you have this so-called monkey on your shoulder, okay?
Health Chatter
Motivation
That's part of what I believe the health profession is about. I'm not sure if the word for us is to motivate people. I think it's really more to encourage them, okay, or guide them, assist them, work with them. And whether it be at an individual level or at a community level that you've been involved with, for sure, Clarence.
Health Chatter
Motivation
You know, there are certain things that are out of our control. Like, you know, we all faced COVID, for instance. And boy, did that affect our motivation? Think about that. It's just like, how is it that any one individual was motivated I mean, we did as best we could in the health care field to encourage people, for instance, to get vaccinated.
Health Chatter
Motivation
But what is it that actually motivated people to get vaccinated? What happened to being motivated when all of a sudden there's a stop sign that's put in front of all of us where you can't travel or it's very difficult to travel? Your lifestyles have been changed. things were closed down, et cetera. So there are things that are out of our control.
Health Chatter
Motivation
But I will say this, that when things get better, like I'm hoping they are now, those of us who are motivated pick up where we left off as best we can, okay? And that I think is part of human nature for sure.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Well, okay. So I think for everybody out there in the listening world, I'm hoping that our conversation today gets you thinking about how it is that you're motivated, what motivates you, what type of encouragement do you need in order to assume the things that you want to do?
Health Chatter
Motivation
And I believe it also links Clarence with working with trusted partners, whether that's your healthcare providers, your family, friends, et cetera, that can help you assume the things that you want to do and be motivated to do. Does that all make sense? Makes sense to me. Sharon, any thoughts?
Health Chatter
Motivation
So we have Sheridan Nygaard, who is one of our researchers, also helps us with recording and also marketing. Mattie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard are also great researchers. Matthew Campbell is our production manager, gets all our shows out to you with a little bit of music attached. So it's always nice. Clarence Jones is my trusted friend.
Health Chatter
Motivation
You know, our next show will be on long term. COVID, and one of the questions I'm going to have for our guests next week will be, it's one thing long COVID and the medical or health-related things that have happened because of that, but also there's the psychological aspects of long COVID. For instance, we aren't working together, okay, like in an office space anymore or very little.
Health Chatter
Motivation
And so what effect might that have on people's interactions going forward? So I think there's a long COVID effect with that as well. So that will be our next show after this. In the meantime, everybody keep motivated to listening to Health Chatter and keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Motivation
You know, so, um, Here's a good one. So I remember taking a, at the University of Minnesota, I took a biology course as an undergrad. And in the textbook, can I remember this distinctly? There was a picture of what lung disease looks like from somebody who's been, who died from being a smoker. Okay. So I'm reading about this and looking at it. And my father smoked a pipe. Okay. All right.
Health Chatter
Motivation
So I'll never forget this. I went home and I said, Dad, you have to take a look at this. And it was really interesting because he quit, literally quit. smoking a pipe and he had been smoking a pipe for years. He literally dropped the pipe and said, That's it. I'm done. It was just like that. And it's just like, wow. You know, for a lot of people, you just can't quit.
Health Chatter
Motivation
I mean, you've got to go through, you know, withdrawal and all this other kind of stuff. But for my dad, what he did is he quit. A few years later, I asked him about it. And he said, you know what? It just hit me. It just hit me. And that's what motivated me to just say, that's it.
Health Chatter
Motivation
colleague in doing all these shows it's uh we always have great conversations whether we're on the air or off the air so thank you to clarence and then also human partnership for sponsoring all our shows great community initiative you can check them out at humanpartnership.org yeah there you go stan
Health Chatter
Motivation
You know, you know, I, you know, we've been doing a lot of these shows and some of our shows on health chatter have focused on prevention. Okay. It's like, okay. So wearing your seatbelt is, you know, is one eating diet. properly, okay, getting exercise, you know, we address all the risk factors associated with many of the chronic diseases that we as humans face.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's show is on motivation. Interesting subject. Clarence and I will be chatting about that. We have a great crew that helps us with all our shows. For the listening audience, if you've heard any of our shows, I always give them high praises, but I'm going to do it again today.
Health Chatter
Motivation
And I'd be curious, you know, from, you know, Aaron or Sheridan, you know, my perspective is that it's it's perhaps harder to think about it in the prevention mode. You know, if you're healthy and you feel great, then, you know, what do you keep telling us that we have to keep doing this stuff? On the other hand, if somebody experiences, for instance, cardiac arrest, okay, or
Health Chatter
Motivation
They're diagnosed with diabetes. I think that that becomes, for many people, the aha moment. And they say to themselves, geez, I better do these things. I'm now motivated. I have to be motivated to do these things. Because if I don't, I might be facing another heart attack. or a diabetic situation might get worse, et cetera.
Health Chatter
Motivation
So I think that there's kind of these nuances between the prevention side of the equation and if you have a disease entity. I don't know, what do you guys think about this?
Health Chatter
Motivation
Yeah. Yeah. You know, here's the other thing, too. I think I might have mentioned in a previous show, my mother grew up with a very, very dear friend who smoked like a chimney. I mean, just unbelievable. And I remember asking her, I said, you know, Rita, you have to, you just have to quit smoking. And she turned around to me, and this gets to your point, Aaron. She said, you know what?
Health Chatter
Motivation
So today, Clarence and I, we've been thinking that, geez, we've been doing all these shows about health. And how is it that people get motivated to do something about their health, whether it be on the prevention side, whether it be on the intervention side? What is it that gets us motivated? So the listening audience, you can't see, but behind me is my pooch, Murphy.
Health Chatter
Motivation
I really enjoy smoking. And if you're telling me, Stan, that if I stop, I'll add whatever it is, five years to my life or whatever. She said, look at all the years of enjoyment I've had. And so you know what you say to a person like that? Okay, I understand. I get it. You know, it's just like, God bless.
Health Chatter
Motivation
Yeah. So, you know, it's also interesting, too, of what we deal with to be motivated. So let me give you a for instance. Life insurance. Like, why would I buy life insurance? It's not for me, okay? Because when I die, I'm motivated by the fact that when I die, there'll be something left for, okay? That's what life insurance is about. So the motivation comes from the idea of
Health Chatter
Motivation
making whoever is left happy or more comfortable, et cetera. So there are other things that we deal with in our life that motivates us. Also, our own kids motivate us, okay? We want to do whatever we can so that their lives are better than ours. Okay. We want to take it up a notch. Okay. As best we possibly can.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's episode is on suicide and specifically, more specifically, the report that's recently come out in the state of Minnesota on the numbers that we're facing, which is unfortunately not happy, but hopefully we'll get a public health perspective on it from our illustrious guests. So stay tuned in a second here. We've got a great crew that...
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
And I encourage all of you to check out their website. You can check our website out as well as healthchatterpodcast.com. You can see their information and all the logistics for our shows, including on our website, we put our background research on there. and the sites that we've used in order for us to reflect on good questions for our guests that we have.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
So, you know... Here's a little bit of good news, maybe, I guess. For many of the health-related issues, actually, I might go on record as saying maybe most of the health-related issues where we see high prevalence, it really affects the Black community. the Black population more.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
But what's really interesting is, according to your data here, Stefan, the age-adjusted suicide rates by race and ethnicity, it's the lowest in the state of Minnesota. It's the lowest. in the Black community. So finally, there's some relatively good news for the Black community.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
However, on the other end of the equation is the American Indian and Alaskan Native, which is relatively high, and then I guess maybe really high, and then followed by white, Hispanic, et cetera. Any thoughts about just race in general and maybe what we're seeing here, besides just the numbers, any guesses on why it might be higher in American Indian and Alaskan Native, for instance?
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
Today, we have a wonderful guest, a great colleague of mine, Stefan Gingrich from the Minnesota Department of Health, who's recently, it's only been like, what, less than a month or so that you got a report out on what's going on in the state of Minnesota.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
Yeah. You know, it's interesting, um, Clarence, I w I was on that same wavelength a little bit. Um, but I used a different word stigma. There's, you know, there's a particular, I think stigma that, um, people attach to, um, suicide, um, You know, like if it happens to someone that you know or is dear to you, it's like you say, what the heck?
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
And Clarence and I will reflect not only on that, but also how we compare, for instance, to other states nationally, and then also what's going on nationally as a whole around the issue of suicide, unfortunately, and suicide prevention. So today we have Stefan with us, senior epidemiologist at Minnesota Department of Health. He was previously at Stay Well Health Management,
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
Why didn't they get some kind of intervention to help them, okay? And to a certain extent, It relates to more of a chronic condition. You know, you just don't, it just doesn't happen. At least I think it doesn't happen. The ideas behind this just don't happen overnight. Where with homicide, it like happens. It's an acute event and boom, that's it. So I think there's a little bit of stigma.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
All right, I've got another question for Stefan here. Ready? All right. So, you know, I'm looking at your data here and it's interesting, like between the ages of 20 and 59 or 60, the rates are, you know, higher. Then all of a sudden it takes this kind of dip into the 60s. So what's going on there? Are we just wiser or we, you know, for those of us that are either in our 60s or 70s,
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
We've gone through it. We've dealt with stress. We kind of get it. And so it's like, okay, everybody, chill out a little bit here. Or what is it that between, what do you think it is, I guess, between 20 and 60 that the rates are higher than like in the 60s or early 70s?
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
He's done a variety of different publications in this arena, and most notably the one that you'll hear about today. He's got his background in epidemiology from the University of Iowa, the Hawkeye State, south of Minnesota. So welcome to you, Stefan, to Health Chatter.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
You know, I wonder if a big variable is just work. Okay. So like, you know, from your twenties to your, you know, mid sixties, 70, um, you're, you know, you're, you're working and, um, then all of a sudden, thank goodness I'm done with that. Okay. That's that stressor is like gone. And, um,
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
And basically during those years in the 60s, 70s, etc., it's maybe adjustment factors for people as opposed to incredible stressors like from work or bringing up a family or paying for college tuitions and all this other kind of stuff. Again, I'm only putting a guess out there as well.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
So let's talk about geographic, since you mentioned that, because certainly in the state of Minnesota, again, I don't know what's going on nationally. I'm guessing it's similar, but it's significantly higher in rural areas, okay? And has that been pretty much true over the years that we've been collecting that it's higher in rural areas than in like in metropolitan areas?
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
Yeah, thanks, thanks. So, all right. Suicide. You know, what Clarence and I do a lot of these shows, we talk about acute medical conditions, we talk about chronic medical conditions, but suicide kind of is a variable or a condition that's almost
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
if you're in an environment at least where you know you might have a chance to get some help, that might be a factor as opposed to out in the middle of nowhere and you don't know where to turn. Again, I'm only thinking human behavior wise. Clarence.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
in a um a realm by itself so let's let's first and foremost let's just start out with all right what's going on in the state of Minnesota so go ahead Stefan reflect on on the report that that you've put out and tell us where we're at the trend that we're seeing how it's how it's reflected by maybe different races in the state, geographic variations, et cetera.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
You know, one thing that I think is important for all of us and those of us in the listening audience here is to realize this. We all, as human beings, have ups and downs, okay, no matter what. We all have stressors that are more intense at times than others. And it's how... you as a particular human being can cope with them and deal with them from time to time.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
So as we come towards the end of the show, I really think it's important that we tell everybody what are the typical kinds of warning signs for suicide. So for instance, people are talking about that they want to die, or they feel guilty, or they have a lot of shame, or they feel as though they're a burden on others. A sense of emptiness or hopelessness, extremely sad or anxious.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
Or even for some people, they're experiencing unbearable pain. And that might be from a particular medical condition where they just say, you know what, I can't cope with this anymore. And people start thinking about plans. They make plans ahead of time. What else have you heard, Stefan, from your colleagues as far as warning signs, I guess, in this arena?
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
putting the numbers behind it. You know, it's sometimes, you know, you could talk about a particular subject just overall, but then typically somebody will ask, well, how bad is it? You know, or, you know, how many people actually, and then when you put numbers to a particular issue, then, you know, we have these aha moments. And I hope all of us on the show had this aha moment
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
And it's okay to hold somebody's hand, okay, and help them through things. It's okay to give somebody a hug if they need it. You know, just some support is really good. I appreciate your optimism. You know, and there is. There is something to be said about this. Or as professionals, we should look for that. And because those are the hopeful signs, certainly from a public health perspective.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
So Stefan, thanks. Thanks so much. And we'll keep in touch with you to see if there's other information that comes your way. So thanks again. So for our listening audience, we have lots of great shows coming up. It's kind of an interesting segue. We're going to get into the mental health arena a little bit. So next week, we're going to be talking about government and mental health policy.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
And then eventually we're going to be having talks on where we stand with mental health, clinical aspects of mental health, et cetera. We're also going to be talking about asthma. We're having Senator John Marty come and talk to us about policy at the state level. So lots of great shows coming up on health chatter. So for all of us here,
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
Stefan, Clarence, and the staff, thanks for listening in and keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
drives our program logistically, research-wise, production-wise. We've got Maddie Levine-Wolfe and Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, all do our background research and give Clarence and I some semblance of order as far as talking points are concerned. We've got Matthew Campbell, who's our production manager,
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
So all right. Yeah, I'm glad you have some optimism. It's still a sad story. And Clarence, chime in on this for sure. Is there, do we have any sense based on when people call, okay? Like they might call that 988 number. Do we have any sense at all on how many we might've prevented? Or is that too hard of an epidemiological thing, measurement to get?
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
puts together all the logistics for these shows and gets the shows out to you, the listening audience. Sheridan Nygaard is our marketing specialist and also helps on background research as well. My dearest of dear colleague, Clarence Jones, we've been having fun doing this.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
So if that, Stefan, so if the trend is increasing, might it be because we have... better measurement techniques?
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
Yeah. So let's talk about... Male, female. Okay, because to me, it's striking where we see suicide rates. Again, according to your report in the state of Minnesota, it's like off the charts, more males compared to females. So first, let me, I'll ask, first of all, why that might be. But second of all, is that pretty consistent with what we're seeing in other states today?
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
We like to chat about health issues and hopefully we're getting some useful, honest, up-to-date information to you, the listening audience through our Health Chatter podcast venue. And then finally, I wanna recognize Human Partnership, who's our sponsor for this engagement, for all of our engagements. Wonderful community initiative that focuses on health for all of us.
Health Chatter
Suicide Part 2
Okay, and why? What's going on here? Why us males have a higher rate? I read somewhere access to methods, maybe guns or what have you, is maybe... higher or more prevalent in males, but what, is there any epidemiological analyses on why it's so much higher for males?
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
So in our shows, you can imagine we've dealt with a lot of disease entities, et cetera. And we usually kind of thematically think about prevention, treatment, Disease management. Okay. So let's talk about or get your input on health literacy from a prevention standpoint. All these things that we're trying to prevent. Okay.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Help me to get my head around the idea of health literacy with all these messages that we put out around prevention.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Yeah. You know, it's interesting. There are certain things. that are required for students when they graduate. Like in the state of Minnesota, you're required to know CPR, cardiopulmonary resuscitate. This would be a nice add on to that law. Imagine that, how is it that we could help increasing health literacy with some of the ideas that you were talking about? What about for us,
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
older people, you know, and prevention. It's like, you know, we're barraged with all these health messages on what we should do prevention wise. But many of us don't might not understand it. So how do we deal with with an older population?
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Hello everybody out in Health Chatter land. Welcome to Health Chatter and our show today will be on health literacy, which is actually when we think about all the shows we've done, there's probably a health literacy component to all of them, but we'll really get into the logistics of all of that with our great guest who I'll introduce in a moment.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
So, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's interesting that, that, I mean, it's kind of logical, but it's kind of like, we all need to be reminded of a simple resource as a library to get some good information. Go ahead, Clarence.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
And it was ironic. I remember it well when we were thinking about all the different community oriented initiatives that we were involved with all of our grants. And it just dawned on us. I don't know how, but, you know, hopefully it was a smart decision that, you know, we should really address health literacy when we're dealing with all these great communities that we're dealing with at the time.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Okay. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So, so here's, you said that, you know, this whole thing of health literacy, the theme of health literacy really kind of went off in the 80s, 90s, etc. I can't.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
the problems that are associated with poor health literacy in our illustrious research group listed in here, like we're seeing more hospitalizations, greater use of emergency care, decreased use in preventive services, poor health status, higher mortality, higher health costs, et cetera, et cetera. Okay, now my question is, was that still a problem?
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
before health literacy became, you know, before we started studying it. It seems to me that these issues have been around with us for a while, but maybe one of the major ways to address them is through being more health literate.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
And so we did, we really got going on health literacy, and made sure that our, our staff knew about it, we wrote our grants with a health literacy lens, etc. And we could not have done that at all, really, without the help of our guest today, Janelle Lamont. Since then,
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
You know, it seems to me that, you know, what you're referring to is really a partnership in order to accomplish health literacy. Yes, it falls on any one of us individually, but also the healthcare providers together. So, and not being afraid of
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
not coming across as a patient that you might feel like you're stupid because you didn't, why would I ask this question type of thing, as opposed to saying, it's okay. It's okay to ask the question. Better to ask the question to be safe and correct in your treatment, for instance, than not. So, I mean, I think that's, so I'll give a perfect illustration of this. So,
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Our listening audience knows, if you've heard, I take care of orthopedic patients after they've had knee surgery. I go in and say, hey, listen, I've had it myself, so I'm here to provide you some insight on how to recover. And it's really interesting, the comments that I often get. I love, like one patient will say, I love just hearing normal language.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Just normal, and I appreciate that greatly, as opposed to the medical ease that they hear when, you know, in getting their knee replaced, okay? So it kind of takes, to a certain extent, it takes the stress down for them. And imagine if you take the stress down for them, they heal, they recover quicker. So it does work, Clarence.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Yeah, since being at the health department, she is now an assistant professor in the Department of Family Medicine and Biobehavioral Health at the University of Minnesota in Duluth, up in northern Minnesota. She got her doctorate in occupational health research and policy and a master's in public health and environmental health, all from the University of Minnesota, primary research
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
So let's talk about a recent event that's near and dear to everybody. And that's COVID. Okay. So How? I mean, just maybe an assessment, you know, from from maybe your your perspective, Janelle is how did lack of health literacy affect us when we were all going through COVID? What did you see or perceive?
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Yeah, yeah. You know, it's interesting, even for people who are highly educated or professional or, I mean, when you're dealt with, something like COVID, it puts us in a high stress situation. And again, that affects our ability to interpret communications properly. And it became problematic because the professionals
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
quickly and efficiently and effectively needed to understand it in order to communicate to their patients. So it put us in a little bit of a quandary there for a while, but it certainly is an indication of why we all need to put up the balance a little bit on health literacy for all of us so that we're not as stressed out when we're faced with those types of things.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
involves investigating the intersection between chronic disease and related risk factors such as Alzheimer's disease and dementia. But she has an illustrious background dealing with health literacy. She trained many people when she was involved at the dental health program at the Minnesota Department of Health and training dental health professionals.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
You know, one of the things that we talked about in a previous show was this whole issue of trust. And it seems to me, and maybe you can reflect on this a little bit, you know, that if you have a trusted relationship with your primary care provider, that almost by itself embraces being more health conscious.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
literate because you have a sense of communicating better or you aren't as nervous, for instance, communicating. The reason I bring that up is in this day and age, especially when people are constantly changing health plans, for instance, and they're forced to change providers, for instance,
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
And also led a lot of conferences, led actually a lot of trainings, even for us, the staff. And then it really jumped from there. I remember it jumped from there where you became really involved nationally in the issue of health literacy. And so thank you. Thank you so much for being on Health Chatter today. So let's get this going. You know, to a certain extent, health literacy is like a duh.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
um that trust then is compromised and and i'm guessing i'm maybe hypothesizing here that health literacy is also compromised because now you're talking to someone else who you've never talked to before and all of a sudden you got to break through that barrier in order to get your your needs met health-wise does that ring true at all yeah i i think
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
So, you know, the other day I went to the dentist, I had to have a crown replaced, not fun. Okay. But my dentist and his, his assistant, his, I noticed were really, really good. They were probably trained by you, Janelle. But they were really good because throughout the whole thing, they were explaining
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Literally, every little step that they were doing, you know, with the impressions and the taking this out, putting this in and, you know, they whatever, whatever it happened to be, step by step, they were just saying, okay, Stan, this is what we're doing now. Okay.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
And it was, it's just comforting knowing that, you know, when you're sitting back in the chair there with your mouth, your mouth wide open, at least you're, you're hearing what's going on and you feel more confident that way.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
You know, which, okay, at least I know that there's going to be one now, you know. Exactly.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
instructions that you can take with you usually they have aftercare summaries that they can print out for you you know I could just see in a doctor's office or in a dental office you know a simple sign that says it's okay to ask just it really it's okay to ask or it's okay to clarify you know That kind of brings it down to say, hey, yeah, okay, thanks.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
You know, because I might need some things to be clarified here a little bit.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
The other thing that I think compromises health literacy is the time allotment that physicians are given in order to see a particular patient or a dentist or whoever, a provider, a health provider. That really puts an angst in the whole thing, I think. And maybe going forward, that type of thing can be addressed.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
I mean, shouldn't we all be kind of health literate when we're dealing with our health? But we all deal with it at different levels. So maybe we can start out with defining what health literacy is.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Better than it is now. So Janelle, I know you've given us some really great food for thought, but if there may be one or two things that you want to make sure our listening audience is left with today, what would it be?
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Well, I'll tell you, it seems to me that, like I said previously, this whole concept of health literacy is really a two-way street. Yeah. We each individually need to own it. Professionals need to own it. And in many ways, we need to all practice as well. Okay. Yeah. It's an ongoing issue. It's been going on for a while. You and I have been involved with it for a while.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
And actually, we're hoping that through just health chatting, through our health chatter podcast, we're providing some information out there. clearly, we hope, straightforward, so that people can understand these issues around health clearer.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
You're, you're, you're a, you're a real gem when it comes to, um, this whole subject. And, um, And just the way you present it is clear. So that's great. That's great. So thanks for being with us on Health Chatter. For all of you out there, we've got some great shows coming up. Our next show, we were having an actual stroke survivor that will talk to us about...
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
His care, which frankly, I assume is going to involve some health literacy issues that we talked about today. And then after that show, upcoming shows, we're going to be talking about grief and how it is that another show on motivation. How is it that we get motivated in health and do things that we need to do? How is it that we get there? So with that, thank you. Keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
We have a great, wonderful ass crew behind the scenes that helps us with all our shows, Maddy Levine-Wolfe, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard do our background research for all our shows that gives both Clarence and I some information that makes us sound smart. So thank you to you guys. Matthew Campbell is our production manager, makes sure that our shows get out to you, the listening audience.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
You know, I remember distinctly, you know, it's like it's almost like every profession has their own language. You think of the medical profession, you think of the public health profession, you think of the legal profession. And it's like all of a sudden when somebody out in the community needs to link one way or the other with that profession, it's like there's a sense of being lost.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
And Sheridan Nygaard, is also one of our researchers, but she also helps us with marketing. So thank you to all of you. You're second to none. My co-host, partner in crime, Clarence Jones. Wow. This has been a ride. Great colleague. We love doing this show. We really, really do. And hopefully we're getting some useful information out to you, our audience. Also, I'd like to thank
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
So let me ask a couple of things here. First and foremost is how do we know when someone is health literate?
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
You know, so you bring up, actually, that's one of the questions I had, you know, when you, when anyone is, is faced with a, um, an acute event, okay. An emergency. Okay. Like, um, Or you're diagnosed, like you just said, like with a major illness like cancer or whatever.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
It's like for any of us, frankly, even those of us who are trained in these fields, it's like all of a sudden it puts you in this kind of a tizzy where it's like, okay, how in the heck do I find out about this cancer or what have you? And in a way that I can act. I really can move forward with information that I truly understand.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
And the point that you bring up is the immediacy of the situation can put people, increase stress levels, et cetera, and affect their ability to understand. So the point of bringing it back to the provider, I think is really important. a good, good point. Okay.
Health Chatter
Health Literacy
Human Partnership, a community health organization that's involved with community endeavors for, frankly, for all of us. You can see their information. You can visit their website at humanpartnership.org. With that, let's get going on health literacy. Today, we've got a great guest with us, Janelle Lamont, who... We worked together all the years at the Minnesota Department of Health.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Yeah, you could check them out at humanpartnership.org. We want to thank them for sponsoring us. And also, you can check us out at healthchatterpodcast. All our shows are on there. All our background research is on there if you want to read about it. And also, many of the shows are transcribed as well. So if you're more into reading the show or listening to the show, you have a choice.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
So let me go back to this kind of theme that I called, I'll just call it confusion. You know, it's just like, and let me just take one facet of that whole ball of wax here. Yearly, every year, people are required to do open enrollment. Okay. Now what does that do? I mean, you know, in the scheme of things, why do we have to keep going through this year in and year out?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
And it, and it provides frankly, angst for a lot of people. It provides confusion. It's, um, can I use for, for instance, when, when you're looking at this yearly update or whatever it is, um, People ask, well, can I still see my same physicians, et cetera? What is it? Why is it that we have to embrace this? I mean, every year we have to go through this.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Well, again, OK, so this is part of the- Well, universal by, excuse me, universal on the other hand, you wouldn't have to worry about that, right? Yeah. It would just continue to happen.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
It just keeps going on and on. Erin, you have a question for us.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
So there you go. Today we have a great guest. I've known her for a long, long time. And we were just chatting probably. I've known her about as long as I've known Clarence. Dr. Lynn Blewett. whose research really focuses on healthcare policies. He's at the University of Minnesota in the School of Public Health, focusing on healthcare policy and access.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's topic is a good one, and hopefully it'll be informative for you, the listening audience. It's about access to healthcare and insurance, which kind of go hand in hand. We've got a great guest with us. We'll get to her in a minute. We've got a great crew that always keeps us hopping, Maddy Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard,
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Thank you. And if it were a right, then everybody would know it and they would understand clearly that
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
So let's play out a scenario here. Let's say I didn't have health insurance. And all of a sudden I'm having chest pain and suffering from a heart attack. What happened? Do I just die in my chair or what happened?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
and she directs the State Health Access Data Assistance Center. And do you call that Shadack? Shadack? Shadack. Shadack, okay. Shadack. Shadack, okay. Her expertise is in healthcare policy, access to care, which we're gonna get into some of these definitions, by the way, so everybody's clear. Looking at disparities,
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
You probably have two heart attacks thinking about the process.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Right, right. So really, what happens when people have, frankly, an emergency situation, they're uninsured?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Yeah. You know, we had, um, a colleague of mine, Jeff Louie, and actually a neighbor too. He's a, um, emergency room physician, um, pediatric emergency room physician. And this was really a say, and this, this exists, this problem exists where, um, Kids are admitted to the ER with some kind of medical issue and they are in the foster system or what have you. And guess what?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
The ER then lands up being the foster home where the kids are literally living in the ER because there's no place for them to go. All right, so all of these complicated, which then creates an access issue for people who need to get into the ER for actual emergency treatment.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
It's really, really sad. So, all right, Lynn, you've been studying this a long time. And I can't help but think that a good academic mind can help us to, based on what you've researched, what you know, we know where the past has been. We know where we are now, this kind of state of confusion around access and insurance. What do you perceive?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
She's also, I remember we worked together at the State Health Department before she went to the University of Minnesota. Wonderful person, wonderful colleague, and many, many thanks for being on our show today, Glenn. Nice to have you.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
What do you really think is going to happen going forward based on everything that you've done?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
And, you know, people who are not covered changes. You know, one year you can be covered and the next year you're not covered. It's like whatever. You know, I'll tell you, you know, as a public health person for my career, I was happy with the Affordable Care Act. Was it the full enchilada? Absolutely not. But I found myself saying things, at least we've got the train out of the stations.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
And to your point, you know, all right, once the train is at the station, at least, you know, along the way, we can see the ups, the downs, the sideways and make changes to an infrastructure that at least we've created. It's better than nothing at this point.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Yeah, so let's get this thing going here. We're talking about access to healthcare slash health. insurance. So let's maybe start this out by what the heck do we mean by access specifically to health care?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Which I don't get. So Clarence, let me ask you something. So you're in the community a lot and you're talking to your colleagues and friends. What are they saying? Are they confused? What's going on out in the community that you're getting kind of wind of?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Older Americans, they can apply for Medicare. I've heard from various people that they assume that, okay, once I have Medicare, great. I don't have to worry about anything else. I've got Medicare. Okay. Then all of a sudden there's this other variable called a Medicare supplemental program, right? Or a plan. Okay, so then you're thrust into this craziness again, yearly, by the way.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
And what's really interesting about a Medicare supplemental program is on a year-to-year basis, not only do you pick the plan, but you have to identify your risk for yourself. well, do you think you're going to be higher risk now that you're a year, you know, you're 72 instead of 71 or whatever?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Has anything happened in the last year that, you know, should, you know, and then all of a sudden, boom, if you're put into a higher risk, this person pays more. And so it's like, oh, my God, you know, oh, wait, I'm a higher risk. But I don't want to pay more. So put me at a lower risk and I'll just, you know, flip a coin and hopefully everything will be all right.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
It's really unfortunate that people have to, in my estimation, have to deal with that.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Right. I kind of make it analogous to elderly people trying to figure out a mobile phone, you know, yeah, it's just like, Really?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
So, Lynn, last thoughts. What would you really, you know, when all is said and done, when you're dealing with access and you're dealing with insurance and all these variables that we've talked about in the show today, what do you really want the public to know? I mean, you know, if there's a one-liner or a two-liner or whatever, what is it you know, based on your expertise?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
And the other thing I'll add to that is this, we invite you back anytime you want, like in your research or your findings, if there is something that, geez, you know, the public really needs to know about this. Here's a method, you know, through Health Chatter that we can get some of that information out. on all the great findings that you're doing and getting in, in the work you do. So.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
So Lynn, thank you so much for, for being with us today. On one hand, you know, it's happy to be able to talk about it. And on the other hand, it's kind of sad that we aren't further along, but like I said, hang in there. Right.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
So the insurance then, if I'm reading you right, is kind of the entree to the whole idea of access itself, correct?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Stay tuned. Yeah, right. To our listening audience, it's been great having you on Health Chatter today. Our next show that we'll be having is on caregiving. And we've had a show on caregiving, but we're going to really focus on caregiver care. burnout, which is really, we're seeing a lot of that, unfortunately, around the country. So stay tuned for that. So again, Lynn, thank you very much.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
And to everybody out there in the listening world, keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
All right. And then there are issues. around access but we'll get we'll get to that in a second so can you you know that to be honest with you even for those of us who've been in the industry it can be even confusing for us okay because it's like oh my god there's private insurance there's public coverage it's um
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
doing this stuff yearly, where you have to re-up your insurance or redefine who you're going to have for your insurance, where you get your insurance, whether it's through an employer or on your own. So can you kind of cover that umbrella of all these things, public, private, where you get it, et cetera?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Matthew Campbell, Sheridan Nygaard, all do great, great work for us. They do background research. They do the marketing. They do the production for this show. So thank you to all of you guys. You're second to none and greatly, greatly appreciate the work that you do. My co-host for the show is Clarence Jones. Great colleague. He's got great questions.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
So let me ask this question. Who typically, let's call it by age, who typically uses health coverage more? Is it fair to say the elderly do? Maybe 65 and older?
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Yeah, okay. All right, Clarence, I know you've got some zingers. Here we go.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Thank you. So you alluded to the fact, and I agree with you wholeheartedly, that our system in the United States is probably the most complicated anywhere in the world. I just think about somebody who wakes up one day and just says, okay, I have to get health insurance. It's just like, whoa, where do I start? So let's back up on one thing. Give me your thoughts about single payer.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
In other words, if we're really talking about trying to get rid of confusion and perhaps get rid of confusion and just make it easier overall. Talk to me about single payer.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
He comes at it from a different angle than I do. which is always, it's a nice complimentary way of doing a show like this.
Health Chatter
Access to Health Care
Yeah, yeah, he's good. But from a different angle than I do. We also have a great sponsor, Human Partnership Community Health Organization. in the, actually, is it statewide, Clarence? I forgot if it's statewide. It is statewide.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
I remember also SARS and a whole bunch of different things. And Mike has served this community locally and also our country nationally on dealing with a lot of different things in the area of infectious disease. Mike is a Regents Professor and McKnight Presidential Endowed Chair in Public Health, Director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
You know, there was a recent article, actually very recent, I think it was yesterday. What's today? Yeah, it was yesterday in the New Yorker. There's an article that came out. The veterinarians preventing the next pandemic.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
And it was really an interesting article in the sense that what it does is it really focused on animals overall and their linkage to us as humans as far as pandemics are concerned.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Many of you might know that as CIDRAP. Excuse me, CIDRAP. He's also served as the science envoy for health security on behalf of the US Department of State. He's the author of a book back in 2017, Deadliest Enemy, Our War Against Killer Germs. I recommend that book.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatters. Today's show, we've got a special guest with us that I'm sure many of you will recognize. We'll get to him in a second. It's on infectious disease, where we've been, where we are now, and where we're going, which we're going to be covering a lot. But we have a great guest. I'd like to recognize my crew. They're second to none, really.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
From 2001 to 2005, Mike, in addition to his role in CIDDROP, served as special advisor to the HHS Secretary Tommy Thompson on issues related to bioterrorism in public health. And, and this is of course where I linked with Mike, was all the years that he served as the head of the Infectious Disease Department at the Minnesota Department of Health. Mike,
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Yeah. You know, you mentioned before, Mike, the idea of diseases with wings, per se, which brings up an idea in my mind. It's like, OK, many of the epidemics that we saw historically, you know, to a certain extent, they were self-contained within major regions of a continent. Now, you know, we're dealing with airplane travel. We're dealing with technology.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
And so I wonder if you might be able to talk about that a little bit. It's like, OK, all of a sudden you've got, you know, COVID in China and the next thing you know, it's on a cruise ship. The next thing you know, it's on, you know, in the United States.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
So all right, let's get this show on the road. It's like past, present, and future. All right, so let's just clear the airwaves a little bit. Let's just talk about COVID so we get that kind of out of the way a little bit, OK? And I'm going to start out this.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Yeah. Clarence and I work together on getting people in Barbershops, teaching them how to take their blood pressure.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Same concept, you know, same idea. So, you know, to your point though, Mike, it's the idea of how do you effectively communicate? Well, number one is within your community and with people who you really trust. Right. Who you can have the conversation with and know that you can get good information that way. So let's talk, you know, obviously what's hit the scene today
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Actually, it's been around, but all of a sudden it's hit the scene just yesterday was Mpox. You and I and, you know, some of us with a little bit of gray hair or no hair called it monkeypox. But there are some reasons not calling it that. All right. So what just so, you know, for our listening audience going forward now with something else that's hitting the scene, what do we need to know?
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
You were entrenched in dealing with this at the state level and at the national level, trying to get information out to the public as quickly and honestly as we possibly, possibly could. So, all right, now I really, at this point, at this juncture, what has Mike Osterholm learned from it? I mean, it's just like, it was such a complicated process
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
from a health perspective and a political perspective. What have you learned from it?
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Right, right. And I wonder if it was almost dictating to the public a false sense of security. It's just like, hey, we've identified somebody at your place of work that came down with COVID, so now we're telling you to do X, Y, and Z. Well, You know, if you're not feeling well, you should stay home anyway, no matter what the hell it is.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
All right. So, you know, one thing that I became really sensitive to is proper funding for So that, you know, you and I could talk about public health in general, which is a whole other story. But going forward, if indeed the nation is going to be proactive based on what we've gone through, give me your sense about, you know, what would be appropriate funding and the focus for the funding.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
So, you know, we're very, you know, I guess the best way to describe it, we aren't very strategic overall. We're, we only, react to kind of what's right in front of our face.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
And, and that's, that can be dangerous as we found out, you know, certainly with, with, with, with COVID and it will happen again. I mean, history bears that out that we will have something again.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
You know, certainly during this during COVID, the pandemic is where. you know, I, you know, when I was dealing with, you know, the cardiovascular stuff and contact tracing at the time, I couldn't help but get wrapped up in, in how the politics of it all became a negative factor, you know? And it just, it, it, it obviously it bothered me.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
You know, it's like, I remember my dad always used to say, when you have your health, you have everything. well, excuse me, the politics was getting in the way of your health at the time, just for, you know, if for nothing else, accurate information. Mike, this has been great. Last thoughts.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Yeah, I underscore that a lot. Clarence, I know you have to leave. Last comments from you.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
So, you know, uh, one thing I want to do is, uh, you have your own podcast, the Austin home update.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
And I encourage our listeners to, to check that out. Comes out every other week. Correct.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
All right. And, and also, um, Feel free to link this particular podcast with your podcast as one of your shows. Feel free. I mean, you know, it would be absolutely, absolutely great. We also reserve the right to get back to you if, you know, God forbid something else happens. Oh, my God, I got to call Mike.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Hey, thanks so much for being with us. To our listening audience, keep health chatting away. Our next show will be on health. and traveling, which kind of links to the thought of, you know, putting wings to everything here. We'll talk about that for sure. Keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Without their help, these shows would not be a success. Maddie Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, Matthew Campbell, Sheridan Nygaard. And of course, we have Dr. Barry Baines as our medical advisor. All the logistics are done by the crew in the background. They do the research and also get the shows out to you, the listening audience. Clarence Jones is my great colleague.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
You know, the other thing I think is that, you know, how many of us have witnessed or been part of a public health emergency? I mean, and then all of a sudden it kind of hit. And it's like, you know, the response from many people is, okay, well, now what the hell do we do?
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
We do these shows together. We have a lot of good chats. And we've talked to a lot of great, great people on this show. So thank you, Clarence. It's a pleasure working with you. Also, our sponsor is Human Partnership. You can check them out. It's a great community health organization at humanpartnership.org. And check us out, healthshatterpodcast.com.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
Long COVID is also a component of this going forward as well. So it's like you're dealing with actual COVID, then you're dealing with complications of that go with it as well. So I think, and you can respond to this as well, is this idea of people getting tired. Just tired.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
You will see all the research for all our shows, including this one. And you can also... put in questions or comments about the shows as you listened to them. So thanks to all of you. So today we have a great guest with us, Dr. Michael Osterholm. Mike and I go back a long way in the field of public health. We've done some great things together. I remember HIV training.
Health Chatter
Infectious Disease
You know, also there's, you know, this constant balance between infectious diseases and chronic diseases, which we're dealing with. And I think that that also creates some angst for the public as well. It's like on one hand, I'm dealing with heart disease. And now all of a sudden you're telling me, oh, my God, we got to be careful about COVID.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Right. So it's like, all right, as a clinician – Would you label that more, shall we say, acute as opposed to chronic? In other words, a mental illness that people just have for a long, long period of time as opposed to it, the mental health issue being associated with another issue such as heart disease?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
So it's been going for a while. It's a great, great podcast, and it's great having Clarence as a colleague. So today we're going to be looking at the state of the art in mental health, and I've got a great guest for us today, Mike Trangle, Dr. Mike Trangle. He and I go back a long, long way. We were in high school together. We were on a tennis team together.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
uh uh that's not really depression gotcha okay and and and in those kinds of situations for listening audience um Do psychiatrists, for instance, work with like internists or cardiologists in this particular instance in order to coordinate care? Or is it really more situational like you're talking? It's a quick adjustment and then thank you very much.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. Today's episode is on mental health. This is one of three shows that we have with our great guests. I'll introduce them in a minute. Today's show is where we stand on the issue of mental health. And boy, oh boy, there are a lot of variables related to mental health for sure. So what we want to do
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Whereas you, in your practice, you were seeing perhaps more serious ongoing chronic cases. Or is it both?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Gotcha, gotcha. You know, it's interesting though, in your statistics you talked about, and I'm hoping I'm saying this correctly, about a third of the people in the country, you know, you're talking about the difference between Minnesota and the country, about a third of us have some kind of mental health issues. What's the mental health care like, the access? in this country?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
I mean, if we have so many people with this issue, I mean, we're talking about it quite a bit, but what's your thoughts about the mental health care access in this country?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
And our professional lives kind of went in different directions. But we always knew kind of where each other was in the environment here. We could always connect.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
No, you know what? I want to say this real quick. Dr. Michael, I want to appreciate you because you always say, how do I say this? And that's what this health chatter is about, is to say it. Because because because the thing that's most important for us really is to be able to have an authentic, open, honest conversation. And you are the expert, you know, and I guess so many questions that I have.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
And I just want you to just, you know, be safe. But say it. Just tell us what the real deal is, because that's what we want to do on this particular program. So I appreciate you.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Yeah. You know, it's interesting enough, but right now we're, you know, with Human, we're doing some things around substance abuse education training. We just trained like 30 young people to go into the community to talk about this issue. And what you're saying is that 93% of them, of people that they may be talking to won't even have access?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
And anyway, Mike has got a great illustrious background in the area of mental health. And he really is a gem for those of us in the state of Minnesota that can rely on his expertise and his insights. He's been involved in a variety of different mental health oriented issues, including eating disorders, chemical dependency, crisis stabilization for adolescents.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Wow. Wow, that's good to know, but it's also sad to know. Exactly. Especially with the issues that we're having that are being compounded by the stressors, the fake news, and relationship, all those kinds of things. It's something that we really, as a community, have to think about and talk about.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
So I'm going to put this in perspective a little bit. When I was an undergrad at the University of Minnesota, I had a position at Fairview Hospital on the West Bank of the river as a psychiatric technician for adolescents. And many, many of those kids that were admitted to the hospital back then were, quote, behavior problems. That's what they were diagnosed as. behavior problems.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
And although we did see, you know, medically oriented, you know, problems as well, paranoia, psychosis, you name it. But has the language of mental health changed?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
with adequate uh numbers of clinicians and resources things don't get better yeah so let me talk about also um over the years you know in your practice have you seen a a major change in medication for instance you know medications tend to incrementally improve um and um and help
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
All right. So for our listening audience, this gives us frankly just a tip of the iceberg of addressing mental health. Hopefully in our next two shows with Dr. Trangle, we'll be able to look at, we'll get a little bit more into the nitty gritty I know, for instance, that Mike is very involved with policy changes, and hopefully we'll be able to share that with all of you so that you're aware.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Most recently, he was at Health Partners, heading up their psychiatric initiatives there. And most recently, he's a distinguished lifetime fellow of the American Psychiatric Association, immediate past president of the Minnesota Psychiatric Society.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
You're simply aware of what's out there. Hopefully our goal for Clarence and I and Health Chatter is to really, really break through even more the stigma that's attached to mental health. Because yes, I would say it's maybe gotten better, but it could be a lot better than when we're at for sure. So any other closing thoughts for this segment, Mike?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
He's on the National Quality Forum Standing Behavioral Health Measurement Committee and participate in our governor in the state of Minnesota, his advisory council on mental health. and also a task force on competency restoration. So he's got it. He's got it in his head on where we stand with mental health.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
a couple months ago on the issue of trust. So let's just say, for instance, you know, you have a patient. It seems to me when you're dealing with mental health issues, probably many health issues, but certainly with mental health issues, there's got to be a real trust factor between the patient and the provider. Talk to me about that a little bit.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
You have to fight the system at the same time when you're dealing with your medical issue. It's just like, whoa, it's overwhelming.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
And we'll also be having Mike on in a couple of other shows down the pike on looking at mental health as it relates to particular population groups and age groups, and then also a following show on policy implications, what we can do from a policy perspective in order to change these things. So, Mike, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being with us today. It's a pleasure.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
You alluded to some of the variables that link today that are causing people to become more and more depressed or more and more anxious. You know, being, you know, gay or lesbian or bisexual, that certainly has its implications. Or we have societal issues like that we all faced one way or the other. COVID, okay, which was you know, over the edge for a lot of people.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Very isolated. And you can imagine if you have a mental health issue on top of that, oh my God. Right.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
And, and we'll address that in, you know, in, in one of our shows that we have the policy stuff for sure, because I can, I can only just begin to imagine the, the implications that, um, policy has for, for treatment. And, um, Or intervention. And you talk about calling somebody on the phone or even a Zoom type thing.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
I can't imagine that that perhaps is the same thing as like a in-person therapy session, okay? Where if you need to, you can hug a person or what have you. The personal interaction is compromised, but it's better than nothing. For sure.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Right, right, right. They can complement one another for sure. So final thoughts for kind of this state of the art, kind of the gestalt of it all here before we go into our next show with you on looking at different population groups, Mike.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
It's great seeing you as well. So let me kick this off. I'm going to ask this, maybe it seems like a simple question, but it probably has a longer answer. What, Mike, what have you seen? I mean, you've been in this arena for a long time now. So what have you really seen in the area of mental health over the years?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Yeah, yeah. You know, I could argue the same thing, you know, in the cardiovascular arena. You know, it's just like, yes, things have gotten better, but we're still, it's still like, you know, the number one cause of death in this country. So what's going on? You know, where are we going here? So, you know, things do get better.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Absolutely. Absolutely. You nailed it on that one. So, all right. So for our listening audience. This is the first of a trifecta of shows on mental health. And I greatly appreciate your insights, Mike, on all of this. And if need be, we'll do more, you know, as things progress. Our next show, interestingly enough, is on pediatric emergency room concerns.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
And a very, very dear colleague of mine and neighbor turns out that many mental health patients are showing up in the ER where they aren't treated for ER oriented things, but they need to stay there because they have nowhere else to go. So, I mean, talk about a mental health issue. Oh my goodness. All right. So all these things kind of meld together. So stay tuned for that for our next show.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
So for our listening audience, Thank you for coming to this particular show, listening in. Again, it's the first of three. And keep health chatting away.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
I mean, there's got to be some torches that we all should be carrying, things that have changed, things that have gotten better, things that have gotten worse. What's your perspective on it?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
is first of all, thank all the people that are involved with Health Chatter, Manny Levine-Wolf, Aaron Collins, Deandra Howard, Sheridan Nygaard, do all our great background research for us and give Clarence and I some good talking points to discuss with our guests. And if we do it by ourselves, even they give us some good talking points as well. Then in addition,
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Yeah. That's a huge change. Yeah. You know, it's really interesting because, you know, in my notes that I got from our crew, The first word that I put on my list of questions besides this one was stigma. And there was a stigma. There still is. There still is that stigma. It's like if people are labeled with a mental health disease, it's kind of like not good.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
It's just like people have this attitude about it. And it's unfortunate.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
That's okay. Hey, I do appreciate this conversation. As you were talking, I had to go back to my childhood when I thought about this term. We didn't talk about mental health. We talked about being crazy. And everything went underneath that particular title. And so as you were saying, if you were crazy, people just left you alone.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
But there's so many different things that impact our mental health that we could never even thought about, so many different types of conditions. And so could you talk about some of the conditions that are involved with mental health issues so that people can get a better understanding of these are some of the things that do affect your mental health?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
We have Matthew Campbell, who's our production manager, who's second to none. He does all the logistics behind the shows, keeps everything going technically. Then we have Human Partnership, which is our community sponsor. That is a great, great organization. I recommend our listening audience. Check them out. You can go to our website.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
Let me ask you something, Mike. You know, all the years, and you've been involved in it for a long time. Talk to me a little bit about communication around mental health. How is it that we've, you know, certainly we have venues today for communication that lend itself to quick information. Okay, maybe not always accurate information. But tell me how communication vehicles has either helped
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
the mental health issue or has been detrimental to it?
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
yeah so let me let me ask this question because i you know it's it you know and and and i come from a community perspective so you know i get all these i get all these comments people will say about different different kind of topics but what percentage of our population really is affected by mental health issues you know i mean percentage of which populations you say Yeah, just in general.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
I just want to do just something in general. And the reason why I ask that question is that a lot of times people come up with all kinds of data. They say half of us have mental health issues. And we know that that's not true. But I know that there's some specific population, some specific information that we need to know to help to address some of the myths about this particular issue.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
So you can just, wherever you want to go. I'm okay with that. Wherever you want to go, because we're going to touch somebody someplace.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
healthchatterpodcast.com, and also link to their website and see all the great things they do in the community to address health issues, frankly, for all of us. And then, of course, there's Clarence Jones, my great colleague and partner in crime as it relates to health chatter. We've been chatting a lot about a variety of different health issues. This is, I think, our 55th show, Mike.
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
I mean, this is a very, very interesting topic. And I think, like I said, it touches on so many parts about populations and communities. There's just so many misconceptions, thoughts, and
Health Chatter
Mental Health - Where We Stand
So we see, let's talk a little bit about acute and chronic. So, like, for instance, people who, let's just say, who have had a heart attack, okay, or heart failure, all of a sudden, they can easily go into a depressive state, or they can have anxiety about that.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Yeah, you know, I know this is a very difficult conversation, you know, and I thank you for both for entering into it. And I am a community person, very interested in your community as well as my community. It's been difficult having conversations and like what we're having right now.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
You know, people are somewhat hesitant about having, I mean, I call it eyeball to eyeball conversations because there are people in our communities that really do care. But the question for us is what are the low hanging fruits that we can do, I mean, to assist you in this work? I mean, that's really where we're coming from. And so help me to be able to share with others What we can do.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Yeah. So first of all, let me commend MDH for the creation Amen. But what took him so long? Yeah. The contribution of the Native community has been phenomenal for a long time. And so anyway, it's 2024. OK, so we're grateful for that. But Sam mentioned the fact about getting information out. But I would like to have doable information, OK?
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Because so many times when we talk about different communities, we always talk about how bad it is, right? what I would like to see for me as a community person is what is it that we can do to assist, to help, to make it better? You know what I mean? In a doable way, because we have so many members that are not clinicians. So many of our members are not doctors.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
I mean, so, you know, many times when we do this information out there, it's directed at that level. But there are a lot of people that are not at that level that would love to be allies. So help us to learn how we could be allies as well. Give us something that's doable for us. And I think that we can then begin to see some movement. So that's just my thoughts.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
That would be the goal. Can I ask a question? And this is me now, I told you, I'm just out there. I think the thing for me is that I'm not sure how to get invited. to these places where I can learn more. I think that many times when I think about it, I mean, I'm very open, but I'm not sure where I can enter the space and the place. Those people that want to do that, how can they do that?
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
I mean, you say, well, just go to the powwow, go to this. That's a whole different kind of thing. Is there a way for us as a community to be able to be more proactive in terms of inviting people to learn more in a safe manner? So that's my community comment. How do we do that?
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Thanks, Sheridan. Here's what I'd like to know. Is there a brochure or something about 10 tips for learning about the American Indians here in Minnesota? I mean, you know, just 10 things that we need to know. I mean, you know, 10 places we need to go. I mean, just like Sheridan was talking about those spaces. I mean, a great restaurant. I just need a starting point.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
So I'm just throwing it out there to say that I am more than interested. I'm sure a lot of other people are more than interested in learning. But is there a space, a place where we can just say, these are 10 tips or 10 places or 10 something where we can get started in this journey?
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Well, no, no, no. I don't know about that, but I look forward to partnering with you if you let me. I'm more than willing to do that and to share resources or be engaged in community conversations. Let me know.
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
I don't know my best, but here. First of all, Stan, acknowledge the fact that we have such different kinds of health disparities among different groups of people. How do you... would you explain to us this complicated history that the Native American community has had with the U.S. government?
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Because I think that part of, you know, whether we talked about the data, we talked about the narratives, a lot of this stuff comes back to the relationship between the groups and the U.S. government. Could you just kind of give us a short history of what you just share with us? this complicated history between your communities and the US government?
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
So how can we enter into this question then? I mean, the thing for me, and I thank you for that. I think, you know, you mentioned the term sovereign nation, those kinds of things. How do we, those of us who care but don't know how to care, how do we enter into this conversation about this issue of Native American health?
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
So let me follow up. And I'm a prober now. Did I say that before we started? I'm a prober. OK. You talked about there are 11 sovereign nations in Minnesota. But is it more than 80% of the people, Native American community, they live outside of the reservation? Is that correct? How then do we address that along with this whole issue around American Indian health?
Health Chatter
Indigenous Health
Because if they're not in the sovereign nation, they're here in the urban communities, how then can we work together to make something happen to address those issues?
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
So Hytham, let me ask you from what you just heard, um, Is that typical as far as initial emergency care for a potential stroke patient?
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Health Chatter. And today's show is a special show on a stroke survivor. And you'll hear his story. We'll get to that in a minute. Previously, beforehand, we had done a show on stroke and all the information that you, the listening audience, should really know about it, the different types of stroke, how to prevent a stroke, treat a stroke and manage it.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
And they are our sponsor for Health Chatter. So many thanks to them. You can see more information about them at their website, humanpartnership.org, O-R-G. So thank you to everybody. Today, we have two guests with us, Dr. Haitham Hussain, who worked with us on the previous show on stroke. And he was the one who recommended that we also talk to a patient. So Haitham, thank you for coming.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
Wow. Okay. All right. I could, to a certain extent, trying to put myself in your shoes, I can understand your thought process. It's just like, what the heck here? It's like, you're telling me to come back now? What's going on here?
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
So let me ask you, Haitham, given this time frame that we're talking about here, an 18-hour time frame, was the window lost as far as providing... necessary medication for an ischemic stroke?
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
helping us put this show together. And I'm gonna turn it over to you because I have a sense that you have a nice relationship with our other guests. So I'll let you introduce them.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So at some point, you did move forward, right? I did. Okay. All right. So let's take it from that point. whereby you came to the conclusion that I need some medical attention or further medical attention?
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
It's like, is there black medication and is there white medication?
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
So, you know, here's partially a takeaway for the audience, too. It doesn't matter if it's a stroke. It could be any medical condition here. There should be equity. There should be the same kind of care for one as it is for the other, okay? It's just the way it should be, okay? We'll get back to stroke in just a second. Clarence, are you there? I don't know if he can connect the end.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
He's having a little bit of problem connecting it, but let me, are you there? Yeah, I'm here. I just got back into the cities.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
So, you know, Tony, you also mentioned a really, really important aspect here, and then I'll let you take the mic here, but is this idea of trust. And fortunately, you were able to create trust in, in frankly, a pretty quick manner with, with Hytham. Okay.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
And that, but that even took some conversation from what, from what I understand in order for you to gain that in order for you to proceed with the care that you needed. Okay. Take it from there.
Health Chatter
Stroke - A Patient Story
I'll tell you what disturbs me, and I'm glad you're telling the story behind it, is that is the fact of taking advantage of a medical situation, okay, where that needed to be foremost dealt with, okay, as opposed to, oh, by the way, you know, you should be part of this initiative. No. So what comes out of this, and Tony, maybe you can respond to this,