Steph McGovern

I think at the end of the day, despite policy, often it can be people mobilising and, you know, communities who are fed up, who make the difference.

And there's lots of all the unsung heroes, like a charity I work in Middlesbrough is focused on helping girls who are most likely to become needs, focusing on helping them and finding, you know, giving them inspiration, aspiration.

That's all going on in a kind of individual siloed local level.

Yeah.

What I guess my point is, is so do you think we are going to see real change then?

I know you can't tell us everything you're going to say to the government yet because you're still figuring it out.

But, you know, careers, that's really important, as you've said, that parity of esteem around vocational training has to change.

Yes.

Because that's where the skills gaps are.

And also, I guess as a parental, the parents element in all of this, how do you mobilize those parents who are disengaged with education for their kids because they didn't see any value in it themselves?

I agree.

There's so many elements to this, but do you genuinely think we're going to see change?

Yeah, that's so true because I know with the Middlesbrough Football Club, obviously a much better one.

They've got an amazing foundation and it's absolutely, you know, they do things like do parents' evenings in the football club, you know, to give that incentive as well to parents who might be disengaged with their education system, you know, a chance to go and see the football club as well.

And, I mean, you shouldn't need to do that, but that's where we are with things at the moment, you know.

There's just one other thing I wanted to ask you about before we wrap things up.

We had Mark Warner on the show recently, who is the founder of Faculty AI.

So, you know, this unicorn AI business set up in Britain, recently bought by Accenture or in the process of being for billions.

Yeah.

And he's got a three-year-old and I said to him, what do you think your three-year-old should be learning about now?