Stephen Dubner

Ben Zhao is a professor of computer science at the University of Chicago. He is by no means a techno pessimist, but he is not so bullish on artificial intelligence.

Ben Zhao is a professor of computer science at the University of Chicago. He is by no means a techno pessimist, but he is not so bullish on artificial intelligence.

Ben Zhao is a professor of computer science at the University of Chicago. He is by no means a techno pessimist, but he is not so bullish on artificial intelligence.

But Zhao isn't just waiting for the bubble to burst. It's already too late for that. Because the harms that are happening to people is in real time. Zhao and his team have been building tools to prevent some of those harms. When it comes to stolen art, the tool of choice is a dose of poison that Zhao slips into the AI system. There is another old saying you probably know.

But Zhao isn't just waiting for the bubble to burst. It's already too late for that. Because the harms that are happening to people is in real time. Zhao and his team have been building tools to prevent some of those harms. When it comes to stolen art, the tool of choice is a dose of poison that Zhao slips into the AI system. There is another old saying you probably know.

But Zhao isn't just waiting for the bubble to burst. It's already too late for that. Because the harms that are happening to people is in real time. Zhao and his team have been building tools to prevent some of those harms. When it comes to stolen art, the tool of choice is a dose of poison that Zhao slips into the AI system. There is another old saying you probably know.

It takes a thief to catch a thief. How does that work in the time of AI? Let's find out.

It takes a thief to catch a thief. How does that work in the time of AI? Let's find out.

It takes a thief to catch a thief. How does that work in the time of AI? Let's find out.

Ben Zhao and his wife Heather Zhang are both computer scientists at the University of Chicago, and they run their own lab.

Ben Zhao and his wife Heather Zhang are both computer scientists at the University of Chicago, and they run their own lab.

Ben Zhao and his wife Heather Zhang are both computer scientists at the University of Chicago, and they run their own lab.

What's your lab look like? If we showed up, what do we see? Do we see people milling around, talking, working on monitors together?

What's your lab look like? If we showed up, what do we see? Do we see people milling around, talking, working on monitors together?

What's your lab look like? If we showed up, what do we see? Do we see people milling around, talking, working on monitors together?

When there's a tool that you're envisioning or developing or perfecting, is it all hands on deck? Are the teams relatively small? How does that work?

When there's a tool that you're envisioning or developing or perfecting, is it all hands on deck? Are the teams relatively small? How does that work?

When there's a tool that you're envisioning or developing or perfecting, is it all hands on deck? Are the teams relatively small? How does that work?

I read on your webpage, Ben, you write, I work primarily on adversarial machine learning and tools to mitigate harms of generative AI models against human creatives. So that's an extremely compelling bio line. Like if that was a dating profile and I were in AI, I would say, whoa, swiping hard left. But if I'm someone concerned about these things, oh my goodness, you're the dream date.

I read on your webpage, Ben, you write, I work primarily on adversarial machine learning and tools to mitigate harms of generative AI models against human creatives. So that's an extremely compelling bio line. Like if that was a dating profile and I were in AI, I would say, whoa, swiping hard left. But if I'm someone concerned about these things, oh my goodness, you're the dream date.