Stephen Dubner

Failure was considered shameful, often the grounds for suicide. And think about the Christian concept of original sin. You are born with failure in your soul. I asked Gary Klein for a modern definition of failure, at least his modern definition.

Okay, that's one definition, maybe a bit narrow. I asked Amy Edmondson for her take.

Okay, that's one definition, maybe a bit narrow. I asked Amy Edmondson for her take.

Okay, that's one definition, maybe a bit narrow. I asked Amy Edmondson for her take.

Okay, so we're starting to see why failure is tricky. Two failure experts, two very different definitions.

Okay, so we're starting to see why failure is tricky. Two failure experts, two very different definitions.

Okay, so we're starting to see why failure is tricky. Two failure experts, two very different definitions.

I've seen the argument that a lot of failure is hushed up because... A, people are embarrassed or ashamed, perhaps, but also B, they're eager to move on to something that's not a failure. And that that hushing up can have a big downside, which is that people don't know what that failure was.

I've seen the argument that a lot of failure is hushed up because... A, people are embarrassed or ashamed, perhaps, but also B, they're eager to move on to something that's not a failure. And that that hushing up can have a big downside, which is that people don't know what that failure was.

I've seen the argument that a lot of failure is hushed up because... A, people are embarrassed or ashamed, perhaps, but also B, they're eager to move on to something that's not a failure. And that that hushing up can have a big downside, which is that people don't know what that failure was.

The data aren't necessarily published or released, and therefore it can waste an awful lot of time by an awful lot of smart, motivated people if they don't know what path produced failure. What are your thoughts on that?

The data aren't necessarily published or released, and therefore it can waste an awful lot of time by an awful lot of smart, motivated people if they don't know what path produced failure. What are your thoughts on that?

The data aren't necessarily published or released, and therefore it can waste an awful lot of time by an awful lot of smart, motivated people if they don't know what path produced failure. What are your thoughts on that?

So when you're in the realm of decision making, you're working with a lot of people, I assume, who come from different disciplines. They might be from management, from engineering and so on. But with a background in cognitive psychology, I'm wondering, Gary, if you feel the way you do about failure in part because of an evolutionary explanation.

So when you're in the realm of decision making, you're working with a lot of people, I assume, who come from different disciplines. They might be from management, from engineering and so on. But with a background in cognitive psychology, I'm wondering, Gary, if you feel the way you do about failure in part because of an evolutionary explanation.

So when you're in the realm of decision making, you're working with a lot of people, I assume, who come from different disciplines. They might be from management, from engineering and so on. But with a background in cognitive psychology, I'm wondering, Gary, if you feel the way you do about failure in part because of an evolutionary explanation.

In other words, does failure need to burn at us for the simple reason that we won't progress as a tribe, as a civilization, if it doesn't burn at us?

In other words, does failure need to burn at us for the simple reason that we won't progress as a tribe, as a civilization, if it doesn't burn at us?

In other words, does failure need to burn at us for the simple reason that we won't progress as a tribe, as a civilization, if it doesn't burn at us?

So if someone were to ask you what's the correct way or the most productive way to think about failure generally, do you have an answer for that?