Stephen Dubner

Maybe the five felt like 20 years to you.

But can you just describe the arc of it from your perspective?

Well, I'll share a secret with you.

The reason that a lot of writers and especially journalists become journalists is because it forces you to do the work.

Which was good and bad, especially if there's a quota that you have to fill, it can get sloppy.

But well, to that point, Pima was every week originally to every other week.

What was that change about?

I love how three minutes ago you said, it's the best thing that ever happened to me.

And now it's ruining your life.

So if it was perfect, why do you want to stop?

When did you start getting as driven as you are by that appetite?

Was it always in you or is it more recent?

When you're trying to recruit students, how are you communicating to students and their parents?

Like it's this kind of school and this is what's going to happen.

Because it's a little bit like a scared straight story.

Here comes this guy, Steve Levitt, accomplished economist, taught at University of Chicago for many years, PhD from MIT, went to undergrad at Harvard, and he's here to tell you that it's all...

a facade or mirage or whatever you want to call it.

If I were working with you on this project, I would encourage you to open up like that, especially since you were, as you put it, ahead of the curve on just ticking the boxes.

Because I just wonder how the message that you're selling gets received otherwise.

Because I just don't know how many people are really frustrated about the status quo that you're describing.