Stephen Dubner

This episode was produced by Zach Lipinski. He and Dalvin Abouaji worked on the update. It was mixed by Greg Rippin and Jasmine Klinger with help from Jeremy Johnston. The Freakonomics Radio network staff also includes Alina Kullman, Augusta Chapman, Eleanor Osborne, Ellen Frankman, Elsa Hernandez, Gabriel Roth. Morgan Levy, Sarah Lilly, and Tao Jacobs.

This episode was produced by Zach Lipinski. He and Dalvin Abouaji worked on the update. It was mixed by Greg Rippin and Jasmine Klinger with help from Jeremy Johnston. The Freakonomics Radio network staff also includes Alina Kullman, Augusta Chapman, Eleanor Osborne, Ellen Frankman, Elsa Hernandez, Gabriel Roth. Morgan Levy, Sarah Lilly, and Tao Jacobs.

You can find our entire archive on any podcast app, also at Freakonomics.com, where we publish transcripts and show notes. Our theme song is Mr. Fortune by the Hitchhikers. Our composer is Luis Guerra. As always, thanks for listening.

You can find our entire archive on any podcast app, also at Freakonomics.com, where we publish transcripts and show notes. Our theme song is Mr. Fortune by the Hitchhikers. Our composer is Luis Guerra. As always, thanks for listening.

You can find our entire archive on any podcast app, also at Freakonomics.com, where we publish transcripts and show notes. Our theme song is Mr. Fortune by the Hitchhikers. Our composer is Luis Guerra. As always, thanks for listening.

This is Freakonomics Radio, the podcast that explores the hidden side of everything with your host, Stephen Dubner.

This is Freakonomics Radio, the podcast that explores the hidden side of everything with your host, Stephen Dubner.

This is Freakonomics Radio, the podcast that explores the hidden side of everything with your host, Stephen Dubner.

Stitcher.

Stitcher.

Stitcher.

This is Freakonomics Radio, the podcast that explores the hidden side of everything with your host, Stephen Dubner.

This is Freakonomics Radio, the podcast that explores the hidden side of everything with your host, Stephen Dubner.

This is Freakonomics Radio, the podcast that explores the hidden side of everything with your host, Stephen Dubner.

Stitcher.

Stitcher.

Stitcher.

This is Freakonomics Radio, the podcast that explores the hidden side of everything with your host, Stephen Dubner.

This is Freakonomics Radio, the podcast that explores the hidden side of everything with your host, Stephen Dubner.

This is Freakonomics Radio, the podcast that explores the hidden side of everything with your host, Stephen Dubner.