Stephen Dubner

Criticize it as government going too far, government getting in the business of business?

For anyone who is anti-sludge, these junk fee rules are real victories. But if we're being honest, they are relatively tiny victories considering how much sludge there is in the world. Consider the U.S. health care system. We got into this a bit last week with Ben Handel, a health care economist at UC Berkeley.

For anyone who is anti-sludge, these junk fee rules are real victories. But if we're being honest, they are relatively tiny victories considering how much sludge there is in the world. Consider the U.S. health care system. We got into this a bit last week with Ben Handel, a health care economist at UC Berkeley.

For anyone who is anti-sludge, these junk fee rules are real victories. But if we're being honest, they are relatively tiny victories considering how much sludge there is in the world. Consider the U.S. health care system. We got into this a bit last week with Ben Handel, a health care economist at UC Berkeley.

He told us that a lot of health care sludge is intentional, a way for insurance companies to ration care in order to profit maximize. He also described how sludgy it can be to simply figure out what is covered in the health care contract you're signing up for. And then once you're signed up, there's more sludge in trying to find a health care provider who actually has some availability to see you.

He told us that a lot of health care sludge is intentional, a way for insurance companies to ration care in order to profit maximize. He also described how sludgy it can be to simply figure out what is covered in the health care contract you're signing up for. And then once you're signed up, there's more sludge in trying to find a health care provider who actually has some availability to see you.

He told us that a lot of health care sludge is intentional, a way for insurance companies to ration care in order to profit maximize. He also described how sludgy it can be to simply figure out what is covered in the health care contract you're signing up for. And then once you're signed up, there's more sludge in trying to find a health care provider who actually has some availability to see you.

So I went back to Handel and asked if he had any fixes in mind, any solutions.

So I went back to Handel and asked if he had any fixes in mind, any solutions.

So I went back to Handel and asked if he had any fixes in mind, any solutions.

Come on, say what you really mean. What do you mean by that exactly? What needs to be done that requires too much cleverness?

Come on, say what you really mean. What do you mean by that exactly? What needs to be done that requires too much cleverness?

Come on, say what you really mean. What do you mean by that exactly? What needs to be done that requires too much cleverness?

What Ben Handel just said there, that there's not really money to be made in health care, that's not quite right. There is money being made in health care. It's just that the business model is different with most products. The more you sell, the more money you make. But when you sell someone a health insurance policy, you get paid a fixed amount.

What Ben Handel just said there, that there's not really money to be made in health care, that's not quite right. There is money being made in health care. It's just that the business model is different with most products. The more you sell, the more money you make. But when you sell someone a health insurance policy, you get paid a fixed amount.

What Ben Handel just said there, that there's not really money to be made in health care, that's not quite right. There is money being made in health care. It's just that the business model is different with most products. The more you sell, the more money you make. But when you sell someone a health insurance policy, you get paid a fixed amount.

And the way you make money is by making sure that you pay the health care providers that you contract with less than that fixed amount. This is part of the reason why insurers make it hard for you to consume the health care you may want. So this is a case where commercial entities use sludge to boost their profits. Coming up after the break, how about government sludge?

And the way you make money is by making sure that you pay the health care providers that you contract with less than that fixed amount. This is part of the reason why insurers make it hard for you to consume the health care you may want. So this is a case where commercial entities use sludge to boost their profits. Coming up after the break, how about government sludge?

And the way you make money is by making sure that you pay the health care providers that you contract with less than that fixed amount. This is part of the reason why insurers make it hard for you to consume the health care you may want. So this is a case where commercial entities use sludge to boost their profits. Coming up after the break, how about government sludge?

I'm Stephen Dubner. This is Freakonomics Radio. We'll be right back. A little while back, we asked you, our listeners, to send in your personal sludge stories. Here's one from Paul Gabriel.