Stephen Dubner

I'm Stephen Dubner. This is Freakonomics Radio. We'll be right back. A little while back, we asked you, our listeners, to send in your personal sludge stories. Here's one from Paul Gabriel.

I'm Stephen Dubner. This is Freakonomics Radio. We'll be right back. A little while back, we asked you, our listeners, to send in your personal sludge stories. Here's one from Paul Gabriel.

It's probably not surprising that many of the personal sludge stories we received had to do with government sludge. And when you think about government sludge at this moment in time, you may well think of Elon Musk, the world's wealthiest man and one of its most unusual. He has been deputized by Donald Trump to drain the DC swamp. To take a chainsaw to bureaucracy, pick your metaphor.

It's probably not surprising that many of the personal sludge stories we received had to do with government sludge. And when you think about government sludge at this moment in time, you may well think of Elon Musk, the world's wealthiest man and one of its most unusual. He has been deputized by Donald Trump to drain the DC swamp. To take a chainsaw to bureaucracy, pick your metaphor.

It's probably not surprising that many of the personal sludge stories we received had to do with government sludge. And when you think about government sludge at this moment in time, you may well think of Elon Musk, the world's wealthiest man and one of its most unusual. He has been deputized by Donald Trump to drain the DC swamp. To take a chainsaw to bureaucracy, pick your metaphor.

There are plenty to go around. Musk runs a new entity called Doge, the Department of Government Efficiency, which took over and renamed an existing entity called the USDS or US Digital Service. So we thought it'd be good to speak with one of the people who founded the USDS a little over 10 years ago under President Obama.

There are plenty to go around. Musk runs a new entity called Doge, the Department of Government Efficiency, which took over and renamed an existing entity called the USDS or US Digital Service. So we thought it'd be good to speak with one of the people who founded the USDS a little over 10 years ago under President Obama.

There are plenty to go around. Musk runs a new entity called Doge, the Department of Government Efficiency, which took over and renamed an existing entity called the USDS or US Digital Service. So we thought it'd be good to speak with one of the people who founded the USDS a little over 10 years ago under President Obama.

Palka no longer works in government, but she is usually adjacent.

Palka no longer works in government, but she is usually adjacent.

Palka no longer works in government, but she is usually adjacent.

That nonprofit is called Code for America. Polka does some other things as well.

That nonprofit is called Code for America. Polka does some other things as well.

That nonprofit is called Code for America. Polka does some other things as well.

It was in 2014 that Polka co-founded the U.S. Digital Service. It was imagined as a kind of anti-sludge strike force going from agency to agency to help them update their digital infrastructure. And how did Jennifer Polka become this kind of a fixer? I asked her. Specifically, I asked what sort of superpower this requires.

It was in 2014 that Polka co-founded the U.S. Digital Service. It was imagined as a kind of anti-sludge strike force going from agency to agency to help them update their digital infrastructure. And how did Jennifer Polka become this kind of a fixer? I asked her. Specifically, I asked what sort of superpower this requires.

It was in 2014 that Polka co-founded the U.S. Digital Service. It was imagined as a kind of anti-sludge strike force going from agency to agency to help them update their digital infrastructure. And how did Jennifer Polka become this kind of a fixer? I asked her. Specifically, I asked what sort of superpower this requires.

Intra-English translation, you're saying?

Intra-English translation, you're saying?

Intra-English translation, you're saying?